Dedicated Grainfather Guide, Problems and Solutions Thread

[Killer Brew]

If you are doing a 20 min hop stand you need to adjust your timings in whatever software you are using (eg. Any 30 min addition is now actually more like a 50 min equivalent). This will normally mean higher ibu's of course. Likewise your 0 min additions are likely adding some ibu's due to the long stand.

On the sparge and yes any additional water will weaken the wort.

Your volumes seem low. Worth tracking your efficiencies. Your software will normally calculate this for you if you give it the grain weight / type, original gravity and volume.

 

[Gloveski]

If you are doing a 20 min hop stand you need to adjust your timings in whatever software you are using (eg. Any 30 min addition is now actually more like a 50 min equivalent). This will normally mean higher ibu's of course. Likewise your 0 min additions are likely adding some ibu's due to the long stand.
On the sparge and yes any additional water will weaken the wort.
Your volumes seem low. Worth tracking your efficiencies. Your software will normally calculate this for you if you give it the grain weight / type, original gravity and volume.

thanks for the reply
So with the 0 minute additions I basically should do a quick whirlpool and then pump to fermenter once chilled enough.
Not using any software as yet these were brought kits but eventually will look at doing own recipes. Need to get my head around the whole efficiency thing before I do my next brew I think

 

[Killer Brew]

thanks for the reply
So with the 0 minute additions I basically should do a quick whirlpool and then pump to fermenter once chilled enough.
Not using any software as yet these were brought kits but eventually will look at doing own recipes. Need to get my head around the whole efficiency thing before I do my next brew I think

That is what I do with flame out additions however your 20 minute hopstand is a perfectly valid option depending on what you are looking to achieve. Just that if you do go that way know that it impacts the rest of the hop schedule which you may need to make allowance for. By far the easiest way to understand the impact is to use software such as Brewer's Friend (site sponsor) and play around with the different options to see what changes with each method. The software works for all brewing types so will give an accurate read whether you are using malt extract, all grain or a mix of both.

 

[Gloveski]

That is what I do with flame out additions however your 20 minute hopstand is a perfectly valid option depending on what you are looking to achieve. Just that if you do go that way know that it impacts the rest of the hop schedule which you may need to make allowance for. By far the easiest way to understand the impact is to use software such as Brewer's Friend (site sponsor) and play around with the different options to see what changes with each method. The software works for all brewing types so will give an accurate read whether you are using malt extract, all grain or a mix of both.

thanks killer having a play around with it now

 

[Gloveski]

Sorry to be a pain but have a few more newbie grainfather questions and brewing in general

Regarding taking a pre boil OG which I didnt do on my first 2 grainfather brews but would like to take one on next brew to see how I am tracking effieciency wise. After the sparge do I need to stir or just grab a sample and let cool to take hydrometer reading do not have a refractometer as yet, or take it just before the boil so the wort would be nicely mixed together well in my eyes anyway lol.

I have also been playing around with Beersmith and doing some conversion of recipes etc from BIAB to grainfather , one thing I have noticed is the mash in most recipes is 75 minutes , just wondering should I stick with original mashtime or lower it to 60min like I have seen in most grainfather recipes

 

[Killer Brew]

Always give a good stir before taking a sample as you do get stratification within the wort. Make sure to cool or adjust for temp when taking a reading (Brewer's Friend have a calculator for this).

As for mash times and different mash times (and obviously temps) achieve different things so the quick answer to your question is that a change will have an impact (eg. Efficiency, colour, taste, fermentability, strength). Adjusting timings in Beersmith should give you an indication of this however further reading and experience will round out your knowledge on the variables.

 

[Gloveski]

Always give a good stir before taking a sample as you do get stratification within the wort. Make sure to cool or adjust for temp when taking a reading (Brewer's Friend have a calculator for this).
As for mash times and different mash times (and obviously temps) achieve different things so the quick answer to your question is that a change will have an impact (eg. Efficiency, colour, taste, fermentability, strength). Adjusting timings in Beersmith should give you an indication of this however further reading and experience will round out your knowledge on the variables.

Thanks again killer brew , so much to learn but loving it ,the help from people such as yourself is invaluable . It can be easy to put out a good beer or a crap one for that , but knowing why well that's half the fun

 

[doctr-dan]

Howdy howdy, im currently brewing a ruination IPA clone and I think my pre boil volume is low only 25l and I'm aiming for a 23l batch.
My sparse was really slow so I'm assuming the grain has held more water.
Do I just deal with having less in the fermenter or should I top up with water.?
I'm 30mins into a 90min boil

 

[hoppinmad]

did you take a preboil gravity? If you are over your target pre boil gravity you could dilute down. Otherwise, adjust your hop additions for the smaller volume and put up with a smaller batch size

 

[doctr-dan]

I don't know how to work out what pre boil gravity should be.
I did take a reading though in anticipation of being asked this question.
In the end I was lucky to get about 17L in the fermenter with a OG of 1.068 which is a lot lower than the intended 1.075

 

[Gloveski]

I don't know how to work out what pre boil gravity should be.
I did take a reading though in anticipation of being asked this question.
In the end I was lucky to get about 17L in the fermenter with a OG of 1.068 which is a lot lower than the intended 1.075

Big key mate done two grainfather brews and will be looking at pre boil gravity as my finished OG and litres in fermenter were not what I expected . About to keg both tomorrow as finished cold crashing and just blew the last keg of K&K tonight ..............nice timing

 

[kaiserben]

I don't know how to work out what pre boil gravity should be.
I did take a reading though in anticipation of being asked this question.
In the end I was lucky to get about 17L in the fermenter with a OG of 1.068 which is a lot lower than the intended 1.075

(I use Beersmith and it calculates stuff like pre-boil gravity for me. Although I rarely bother to check)

Starting with the easier thing to address: With you missing your target gravity, the first thing to look at is your calculated overall efficiency. Assuming your calculations were based on 75% overall efficiency it's worth noting that as you go bigger in grain bill and gravity your efficiency will suffer. There's a bit of trial and error in figuring out exactly how much it suffers, but when I'm shooting for ~1.075 OG I'll usually drop my efficiency down to 70% (or even lower).

But the big shock here is that your target volume is a whopping 6L under target. That's huge. I often come up 1L or so short, particularly when I have bigger grain bills or loads of hops (more hops soak up more volume), but 6L is too much to be explained away by plenty of hops.

Because your pre-boil volume is already 3L short (25, not 28L), can I ask whether you took into account the 90 minute boil? Assuming your recipe had 7.05Kg grain (a Ruination clone I just Googled online) the Grainfather mash/sparge calculator tells me you should be using 22.54L mash and sparging with 12.61L for a 90 minute boil. Is that what you used?

PS-
You asked a question before that about whether to top up your final volume. I wouldn't bother if your gravity is already way short. In fact, I'd never top up unless I've somehow overshot my gravity.

EDIT: Grammar.

 

[Coodgee]

you can simplify the water requirements for the grainfather by using the calculator to get the mash water volume required, then just keep sparging (or stop sparging after a certain amount and then just top up) until you have collected 28-29 litres. Then if you under/overshoot your final fermenter volume then just adjust the total volume accordingly next time. I find for a hoppy beer (>100 grams of hops in the boil) I need as much as 29.5L and about 28.5L otherwise. But it depends on your filter type and at what point you stop pumping into the fermenter too. I stop pumping as soon as I start to see air bubbles getting sucked into the chiller to minimise trub.

 

[kaiserben]

Yes, although it's important to note that if your gravity is already low at that stage of the brew, then topping up with more water is only going to put your gravity out by more. So it's a decision you'll need to make at the time.

(Of course, you could do some on-the-fly calculations and add in some DME to get to your target gravity about right. But again that's a decision each brewer will need to make).

 

[pnorkle]

So, a question for those that have upgraded their original GF controller to the newer "Connect Control Box."

Would you say the cost (admittedly, it's not a lot of money) was worth it? Does it make brewing using the GF easier?

Opinions to the usual address, please.

 

[Dorz]

Ordered a grainfather (with the new controller), sparge unit, blichmann thrumometer and a couple of other goodies yesterday, along with a few cheeky peak all grain kits... should give me a good starting idea of how the brew day goes before creating / modifying some recipes!

 

[Coodgee]

So, a question for those that have upgraded their original GF controller to the newer "Connect Control Box."

Would you say the cost (admittedly, it's not a lot of money) was worth it? Does it make brewing using the GF easier?

Opinions to the usual address, please.

Yep. Adds a lot of consistency to the process

 

[doctr-dan]

(I use Beersmith and it calculates stuff like pre-boil gravity for me. Although I rarely bother to check)
Starting with the easier thing to address: With you missing your target gravity, the first thing to look at is your calculated overall efficiency. Assuming your calculations were based on 75% overall efficiency it's worth noting that as you go bigger in grain bill and gravity your efficiency will suffer. There's a bit of trial and error in figuring out exactly how much it suffers, but when I'm shooting for ~1.075 OG I'll usually drop my efficiency down to 70% (or even lower).
But the big shock here is that your target volume is a whopping 6L under target. That's huge. I often come up 1L or so short, particularly when I have bigger grain bills or loads of hops (more hops soak up more volume), but 6L is too much to be explained away by plenty of hops.

Because your pre-boil volume is already 3L short (25, not 28L), can I ask whether you took into account the 90 minute boil? Assuming your recipe had 7.05Kg grain (a Ruination clone I just Googled online) the Grainfather mash/sparge calculator tells me you should be using 22.54L mash and sparging with 12.61L for a 90 minute boil. Is that what you used?

PS-
You asked a question before that about whether to top up your final volume. I wouldn't bother if your gravity is already way short. In fact, I'd never top up unless I've somehow overshot my gravity.
EDIT: Grammar.

Sorry for the late reply, my Grain bill was 8.37kg and I used 22.7L mash water and 13.4L to sparge.
I did have the efficiency set at 75%
The sparge was super slow

 

[kaiserben]

Alright, so the GF calculator gives values of 22.75L mash and 13.45L sparge (for 8.73kg grain and boiling for 90 minutes). I guess that could explain 1L out of your missing pre-boil Litres).

As you've mentioned the really slow sparge, I guess the rest was still in your grain bed when you removed the basket.

And also, not volume-related, but at 8.73kg, which is right near the limit of the GF's capacity, I'd be lowering efficiency to under 70%, maybe 65% (other GF brewers may disagree with those numbers? I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts).

 

[Gloveski]

well my first all grain brew on the grainfather , it's slightly undercarbed at the moment should be cherry ripe by the weekend . I over shot my ABV should have been 4.6 ended up 5.2 but other than that it tastes bloody fantastic. I had lots of grain floating in this one on the boil but has turned out nice and clear in the end . Big thanks to all that have answered my newbie questions .....especially killer brew cheers to you mate :beerbang: