All In One Brewery...

[Guest Lurker]

pH = -log(concentration of Hydrogen Ions)

pH = 8 => C(H+) = 3.35*10^-4 gmol/L
pH = 6 => C(H+) = 0.0025 gmol/L

So we need (0.0025 - 3.35*10^-4)*33 = 0.0707gmol H+ to change pH

Now! I reckon citric acid salt is Calcium Citrate, formula Ca3(C5H4O5COOH)2, molecular weight = 498.46g/gmol.

2 mol of H+ released per 1 mol of Calcium Citrate in solution => need 0.0354 gmol of Calcium Citrate

=> 17.6g of Calcium Citrate ("Citric Acid" salt)... theoretically...

Damn I shouldnt have had that coffee.

Yes but your H+ ions are being removed by the alkalinity in the water and any buffering capacity that is present. The amount of citric acid to achieve the same pH change in different waters will be very different, and controlled by what is in the water to start with. What you will notice if you add it gradually is the pH doesnt change much, then suddenly you overcome the buffering capacity and a small amount of acid makes a big difference in pH. I would also be surprised if citric acid from the supermarket is completely anhydrous which might make a difference to your molecular weight. Hopefully your number will be a ballpark starting point anyway.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

20 Litre bucket with holes drilled and a mesh screen fitted

Hmmm, well that's an idea.

What sort of mesh did you use?

PZ.

 

[James Squire]

Hi Finger,

I had access to stainless woven mesh but I know that wobbly used some fibreglass fly screen mesh with success too.

Hope this helps,

JS

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Thanks man,

You mean like the really fine stuff in some coffee plungers?

What kind of places sell that sort of thing? :huh:

PZ.

 

[James Squire]

Not sure where to buy the stainless mesh... I was given it.

However the stuff that Wobbly used is available at bunnings.

JS

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

One of my workmates just told me she has some large sterile socks made from woven nylon, used in ink makingsounds similar to the hop sock.

Ill try cutting up one of those :super:

PZ.

 

[darkhorse]

FLB

SS wire mesh can be sourced from Melwire in Clayton Victoria (03)9551-2344

or maybe they can refer you to an appropriate local supplier.

But I still like the millions of drilled holes method...

Make sure you charge the battery if its a cordless drill though... might take a while!

 

[Zizzle]

I knew you might be in for a bit of fun Zizzle when I got your email at 5:45PM saying you had just mashed in. Must have been a long night! That recipe has a wide margin of error so don't worry about being unable to take a hydro reading or your thermometer difficulties - you're still going to get a good beer. Most of the mash work happens early on as well. What I'm trying to work out is how you didn't burn the house down with the bag sitting ON your stove - lol! Did you manage to cool and pitch on Sunday night? If so how long did cooling that much take? Can you get a final volume reading? If so we can probably backtrack a few figures once fermentation has finished. :super:

I think I managed to do mine in about 5 hours too. We had visitors show up to stay that night, so it was bit slap-dash at times. Didn't proof the yeast, but figured that I was over pitching anyway (yeast for 23lts in a 11ltr batch).

The bag was on the stove only for the mash. For the boil it was well off.

I was surprised at how much hop sludge the was in the end, and the texture of it.

Cooled in the lundry sink. Didn't take that long. 25-30mins maybe, pitched and was it bubbling when I got up next morning.

 

[Coodgee]

So PP, if my local water has a pH of 8 ...and I want to bring that down to about 6, what would you suggest I do/use to achieve that drop if I'm using the A.I.O. "grain sock" method (33L) ?

...citric acid? how much?

from my research, which includes an episode of basic brewing radio, it is "better" to use acid than salts to lower ph. the reason for this is you will be adding minerals if you use salt (calcium). Tis may be desirable for a beer that benefits from added mineral content (APAs, IPAs) but many beers do not benefit from added mineral levels.

The prefered method is to use lactic or phosphoric acid. phosphoric acid is easily sourced from any hydroponics shop. I use about 1-2 ml in 30-40 litres to obtain a ph of 6 for my brewing water. I don't know what this makes my mash ph end up at because I don't have any ph paper for coloured solutions. will get some soon. but if you start off at ph 6, I am led to believe (through no analysis of my own, just what I have read) that this will get me in the ballpark of 5.2-5.4 for the mash ph.

THis sounds correct for me, because remember ph 5.2 is 3 times as acidic as ph 5.4, so there is a fair room for error in that .2.

is this complete ********? please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[MHB]

You can get SS fly screen mesh, a good window company or specialist bug screen fitter can get you some, might even have off-cuts going at a good price.

MHB

 

[Darren]

mineral content (APAs, IPAs) but many beers do not benefit from added mineral levels.

The prefered method is to use lactic or phosphoric acid. phosphoric acid is easily sourced from any hydroponics shop. I use about 1-2 ml in 30-40 litres to obtain a ph of 6 for my brewing water. I
is this complete ********? please correct me if I am wrong.

Coodgie,

Phosphoric acid from hydrponic shop is probably not food grade and shouldn't go into your beer

cheers

Darren

 

[PistolPatch]

Justin has just written an extremely good post very relevant to this thread. A few times this thread has gone off track from the original aim of simplicity and this is very understandable (and good fun!) for those who have been reading since day one.

For the sake of those who have not read the full thread, I think I can safely say it's time now to acknowledge that this thread has become a discussion of Full Volume Brewing and that this in turn involves two methods - gas and electric.

If you are restricted to an electric source of heating, then I would recommend following James Squires' method of Full Volume Brewing. Wobbly has given it a go already with great results on clarity etc. I'm also going to say that I was VERY attracted by electric brewing when I first entertained the idea of AG. Seemed so simple and controllable and neat etc. Now, I would not recommend it if you have both options.

I think those who have a gas bottle will be better served by brewing in a bag (BIAB - thanks for the name Screwtop!) due to the lower equipment needs/cost and high simplicity level.

I mention this, not only because of Justin's post A Guide to Starting Out in AG which emphasises simplicity but also to avoid confusing new AG brewers.

Finger asked a question here recently about BIAB. Somehow this has got around to how to get SS mesh. BIAB will NOT work with SS mesh - way too course. SS mesh goes hand in hand though with electric brewing where you have a pump that can recirculate. So...

What I'd love to see is this thread, which has been magnificent, splitting into two Full Volume Brewing threads - one being electric and one being brewing in a bag (gas). I really think this would be of huge value to the forum.

I'm very close to having the BIAB Guide written (more like a book - it has spreadsheets and a pictorial .pdf file - lol!)

James, what do you reckon about coming up with a name for, 'Electric Full Volume Brewing' and separating the two forms? Much of what I've written in the BIAB guide could be duplicated for the electric. I'm certainly happy to help with an electric guide.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Cheers
PP

P.S. Thanks for all the pH info. Excellent. That's one thing you can't search for on AHB - only 2 letters!

P.P.S. Aussie-Claret and Old-Dog have just left after sampling the first 2 BIABS so if anyone wants a second opinion on them send them a PM!

 

[jimmysuperlative]

PP, I can't wait to read your BIAB BIBLE ... this thread has certainly covered some territory, enlightened many of us, and - at least in my case - has been the gentle push I needed to actually start AG brewing.

I reckon that even though many brewers have contributed to this thread, the interest, discussion and experimentation it has generated has largely been inspired by your own enthusiasm ...and willingness to "take one for the team" :lol: ...Thanks PP.

 

[poppa joe]

Perhaps we could have...
BIAB For DUMMIES...Like the microsoft type books...
Cheers
PJ
PP no WAR AND PEACE STYLE..

 

[James Squire]

Great idea Pat,

I'll start thinking on an appropriate name for my method and look at opening a new thread to detail it a bit better now that it has turned from a theory to a practice.

I think you are spot on that this thread is becoming hard to track through for those who haven't followed from the beginning. The brainstorming has been great, and sincere thanks to all those who have contributed, but it has now developed into a really simple and practical start for those getting into the AG game.

Im dying to see your 'walkthrough' for BIAB too Pat and hopefully I'll find the time soon to get something sorted myself.

Cheers everyone,

JS

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Yeah I'm sorry, I guess I did take it off-track a bit there...but hey, if my slack-arse mate will give me his magical circle-cutting tool tomorrow (was supposed to tonight) it'll be my first AG this weekend and with you guys to thank :super:

PZ.

 

[PistolPatch]

Donya James! Knew you'd take responsibility for this monster you've started. Not too many threads here that get 200 posts and 5500 reads!

Let me know when you come up with a name and then we better organise a phone date to see if I can be any help to your new thread. I'll probably be of no help and just talk a lot - lol! (You can pinch any writing of mine you like though - lol)

Just finished writing Jimmy a short thank you PM - only took me an hour (lol) so I better go. He deserved such an infliction. Without people like him I, personally, would have zero motivation.

:beer: Jimmy, James and the others!

 

[MHB]

Hows MonoPot?

 

[wobbly]

JS

Willing to contribute what ever I can if required. Like wise you can use any of the stuff I've posted

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Done!

I was going to use a similar perforated pot-in-pot method to others here, but the jigsaw cracked my mesh holding ringsarrrgh!

Heres what I did instead:

Warming to strike temp:


Additions ready to go:


Grain in freebie "hop sock" from a legend at work:


Mash time:


Sparge water heating:


Giving it a good squeeze/wringing out after the dodgy sparge:


The boil with Craftbrewer hop sock:


Where it is now...chilling in the sink with some ice bricks:


Too many people to thank...everyone who has contributed to this thread, and Steve who's recipe I stole, plus the odd grain he helped me out with

PZ.