All In One Brewery...

[PistolPatch]

Taste Test on the Scwartz I Brewed Properly

Going to be very brief here. Check out this thread for my opinion of the second bag-brewed beer. Remember the one done without distraction? Beautiful!

Cheers
PP

P.S. Great posts Mimeryberg and welcome to the forum.

 

[Adamt]

Just read the whole thread (phew.), I think I'll be using this method for my first partial, I have a pot, and barbecue (lol) that could boil a maximum wort volume of about 10L, eventually.

How much grain would you think I could bag-mash with 10L of water?

Might use a duffel bag or something to save me getting drawstring put in some curtains, I'd guess you would boil the bag in some water and sanitise it before using?

As far as "giving the bag a twirl", is that just shaking it a bit to get most of the liquor out before its transferred to the other vessel to rest?

Ta.
-Adam

 

[James Squire]

G'day Adam,

This method is not really required for a partial with a volume of 10L. To do a 10L partial you can boil a concerntrated wort and then top up your fermentor volume. However, power to you if you decide to follow this method....

Mashing @ 2.5L water per Kg grain would be ok though. Eg. Say you mashed 3Kgs grain in your bag in 7.5L water. Then remove grain bag and 'twirl' (PP method which simply involves spinning the bag to effectively wring it out). Bring the resulting wort to the boil and add 1.5-2 Kgs of extract. Do some hop additions along the way and you are good to go.

Software will help you to work out the exact recipe (Im pretty sure I read somewhere you have Beersmith or Promash?) Something to be careful with is allowing enough headroom for the Hot Break otherwise you may wind up with a boil over...

I recently brewed a partial using:

1Kg Pils Malt
1Kg Wheat Malt
.25Kg Medium Crystal
1.7Kg LLME
Bit of POR for bittering
Some Hallertau to flavour
US56

Here's a good link on Partial's by Cubbie:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&hl=partial

Otherwise, choosing to brew using this "all in one" method you would just be doing an AG mini batch at 8L or something. Maybe find yourself a bigger pot and go All Grain using this method!!!!

Good luck,

JS

 

[Adamt]

Currently due to being a uni student, I'm limited with my substandard brew equipment.

The thing that appeals me about this method is the no-sparging bit, by following Cubbie's partial method I'd have twice as much liquor to boil, which in my case is a problem.

I understand this thread was actually about full volume AG'ing, but I'm seeing it as being very helpful from a moving-into-partial point of view.

I now have a strange feeling I've missed something lol. I won't be brewing for another 4 weeks until holidays though.

 

[James Squire]

Yep, cool. I gotcha! I was kinda just dropping the sparge out for you anyway!

How about mash 3Kgs in 9L water. Remove bag, add extract and hop additions... Hey presto!

Same theory... sort of.... just do a partial mash but forget the sparge step. I've done before and its all good as long as you don't mash too sticky. Stick to 3L:1Kg ratio and you'll be all good.

All the best.

JS

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Getting two giant grain socks made up as we speak ...grains on the way ...

top notes and discussion from all you blokes for inspiration

... can't wait to get one of these brews into a keg :beer:

anyone else going to trial this method?

 

[James Squire]

Good to hear Jimmy,

Another convert then! All my bits are collected now too so I'll (finally!) be brewing shortly too... time to chuck an RDO I reckon!

Cheers,

JS

 

[AndrewQLD]

Ok, my Bosuns is kegged and I am drinking it.
The brew fermented well but finished slightly high at 1.012, it usually drops to around 1.008. This beer seems more malty than normal possibly due to the higher FG, but I think its more to do with not over washing the grains. By this I mean, since I did not do a normal sparge, only the malt was transfered to the boiler and not any undesirables. The beer is crystal clear as it always is and the hop bitterness and flavour are as normal.

I can't fault the beer but the true test will be in the judging at the ANAWBS .

Personally I think this method is a good start for the equipement challenged and produces a good drinkable beer without any loss to quality.

Cheers
Andrew

60 minutes into the mash and a refrac reading gives me 1.030, 5 points under expected, 30 minutes later the reading was 1.033, only a loss of 2 points from my expected eff. into the boiler. To be honest that is better efficiency than I thought I would get, so obviously the extra 30 minutes mash time helped a lot.

I recirculated the wort for about 10 minutes and then pumped to the boiler, Volume was spot on 33lt and the SG read 1.033 so an efficiency of 68.6% into the boiler, normally I would get 70% but a drop of 1.4% is not worth worrying about. Starting the 90 minute boil now so all should be as normal from here on in.

This method is very simple, heat all your water, dump in the grains, stir, leave for 90 minutes, Recirculate and pump to boiler.

Tiny efficiency drop, but it's so close to being on the money it's not worth worrying about.
Temp in the mash tun stayed fairly constant with only a 1 degree drop over the 90 minutes probably due to the fact the tun was so full.
I seemed to spend less time hanging around the brewery waiting for the batch sparges to complete ect.

I didn't raise the mash temp for mash out but my burner was turned on straight away and the wort was boiling within 10 minutes of the mash tun being empty. My slight eff drop could have been caused by not raising the temp to mash out.

This method did not really save any time on the day due to the extra 30 minutes mashing.

I will let everyone know how the beer tastes in about 3 weeks when it is kegged. I will be interested to see if the maltiness or mouthfeel are effected by this method.

So to sum it all up mashing with all of your brew water did not really effect my efficiency or clarity of the wort into the boiler, it's simple and easy to do, and I think I saved electricity by not having to raise the sparge temps as I do when I batch sparge.

I will leave it up to you fellas to work out the hard part :blink: , doing it all in one vessel :lol: .

Cheers
Andrew

 

[James Squire]

Thanks for getting back Andrew,

Its great to hear another success story and I was really keen to find out what an experienced brewer such as yourself thought of the result of this method.

Appreciate the fast response to my PM today too.

Good luck in the ANAWBS mate, I hope it does you well! It'd be good to see a brew from this method do well! Go the Bosuns!

Cheers,

JS

 

[PistolPatch]

Just read the whole thread (phew.)

You should try and get on Ripley's Beleive It or Not. Some people really took up some space in this thread eh? - lol

Might use a duffel bag or something to save me getting drawstring put in some curtains, I'd guess you would boil the bag in some water and sanitise it before using?

As far as "giving the bag a twirl", is that just shaking it a bit to get most of the liquor out before its transferred to the other vessel to rest?

Just use a white pillow slip. Personally I would Napisan it first but just a washed slip should be fine. For your first few goes, you could probably even use safety pins to make a false hem to put a drawstring through so as you can tie the liner/slip off qround the rim of the kettle.

After you twirl the bag, let it untwirl and it will stop dripping. Dump it in a bucket or something for ten minutes. More wort will drain out. Give one final good twirl and wringing and then pour the extra wort back into your kettle.

Cheers
Pat

P.S. Go Jimmy! And AndrewQLD, trying to restrict my word volume so all I'll say is, great news and a sincere thank you. :beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang:

 

[ausdb]

5. Efficiency according to Beersmith into boiler was 81% and brewhouse eff was 67.4%. I lost more to trub than I planned only allowed 2lt and actual was more like 4 or 5 lt. Next time I will make and use a "muslin" hop bag for the boil. I may also consider replacing the fly wire screen with a piece of Muslin due to finer mesh but then this may block and restrict flow. I read somewhere else on a system like this where there were fine filter pads placed top and bottom in the bucket (mash tube as they called it). From what I could understand of that system the pump outlet discharged into the bottom of the "tube" sort of underletting with the return being out and over the top of the bucket some how at least that was what I understood the description to say. Don't know will think about this a bit more and maybe try it after I see the trub loss results from using the hop bag for the boil.

Wobbly sorry to come in late on this but how are you chilling your wort? I have boiled small batches in my urn and just have a copper tube pickup leading to the bottom of the urn (I have a ball valve fitted to my urn as the tap was busted when I got it). As a kettle screen I just wedge a stainless scrubby under the pickup tube against the side and base of the kettle, a good whirlpool after the boil and some time to settle and it works a treat and doesnt leave too much wort behind to spooge and hop debris. Also I tend to use a mixture of pellets and plug hops.

HTH

Thanks for your report on this method, I have just scored a 40L urn and this sounds like a great project :beer:

 

[wobbly]

Hi asudb

Answers to your questions.

1. I use a 9mm immersion chiller
2. I have a "copper elbow" fixed to the "standard" urn tap inlet and on a water test I only left behind 500mls before I lost syphon
3. Haven't had all that much success with whirlpooling in the urn. I think the element seems to interfear with the whirlpool.
4.My first attempt at this method used a mixture of Pride Plus flowers and Amerillo pellets. Noticed some of the flowers got stuck in the standard urn tap. Perhaps I should consider replacing the standard urn tap with a ball valve which would give a larger/less restricted flow opening.
5. Maybe my losses were higher than they could/should have been because I have been a bit pedantic on making sure that "none" of the break or hop debris was allowed into the fermenter. Perhaps if I used a simple screen as you mention and just let it drain it wouldn't be an issue. Also I let the wort settle (continue to cool) over night and then drop into a second fermenter to airate and that could be a better place to limit the break/debris entering the final fermenter?
6. Haven't used a screen so I will try that next time (third All in one Brew)

Other comments on the "All in One Process"
1. My urn at 30lt is to small and you really need 40lt cpacity
2. To make life easier you would benefit from still having a HLT for the batch sparge water. Iv'e done two brew this way now with the kitchen kettle and whilst it works a single container of the require vol of sparge water would make life easier.
3. The system you adopt to raise and hold the "mash bucket' above the urn/boiler needs to be simple to position and use. Iv'e tried a couple of versions of "stands" and I'm now comming around to thinking that a "sky hook" and a small pulley would make life a lot easier. Currently considering putting a "suitably sized" cup hook into the ceiling above where I brew because it would be just something els that "doesn't take up room" and is there waiting to go.
4. I think the real benefit of the "all in one" is the simplicity in my case of getting very clear wort as a result of being able to recirculate at the same time as maintaing mash temperatures all in one vessel using a cheap fountain pump
5. I'm satisfied with the results of the process (trub aside which I'm sure I will get on top of) to date that if the taste test doesn't highlight any fatal flaws I will start looking around for a 40lt urn

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[ausdb]

Cheers Wobbly

Your chilling info is handy, I currently use a counterflow but are thinking of making an immersion chiller to use with an all in one system and then recirculating whilst chilling as in this page.
http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

As for filtering after the boil just try one of these wedged under your pickup tube, with your flowers and pellets mix it should work well
http://www.curlygirlproducts.com.au/

As for the other comments, how did you sparge and for how long and how much water? I have been trying to understand the danish page that Flemming referred to and sparging doesnt seem so clear to me. As for an extra HLT luckily I have a 20L urn as well

I am trying to streamline my brewing process so hopefully I can brew more often with less hassle involved in setting it up and cleaning everything as I tend to brew sporadically. Whilst the 3 vessel brewstands with herms are great this basically can do the same thing with a lot less parts and amount of space.

 

[wobbly]

Hi ausdb

Have another read of my post #122 and you will see that I basically rinsed/sparged with 6lt of water. To do this I just heated 2lt of water in the kitchen kettle to 80C and tipped that onto the Al foil cover on the grain bed. I repeated this 3 times.

In my second brew using the All in One method I lowered the initial water vol in the urn to equate to about 12lt in the bucket to provide a grain to water ratio of around 2.5 to 1. I did this just to see if there would be any issues associated with mashing at the more traditional ratio of 2.5 to 1. In this instance I had to rinse/sparge with 10lt so it was just more of the same using the kitchen kettle but 5 times instead of three. I guess there would have been about 4 or 5 mins between each rinse/sparge addition as that was the time it took to fill and heat the kettle each time. At the end I just left the bucket suspended over the urn for around 15 mins to let the grain bed well and truly drain after the last addition of rinse/sparge water.

Whilst it wasn't onerous or take all that long it was the heating of a number of lots of rinse/sparge water that led me to make the comment that a second HLT would make life easier.

Beersmith predicted my pre boil SG to be 1042 and I measured it at 1040 so a couple of points off. I didn't check the SG at the end of the mash (pre rinsing) or the run off after each rinse/sparge so I can't comment on when I should have stopped rinsing/spargeing (below SG of say 1010). I am planning a further brew later this week so I will take a few more SG readings and post results.

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[wobbly]

Hi asudb

Have a look at this write up ,it's in english and whilst not the Danish system I'm sure that it is very much the same





Cheers

Wobbly

 

[James Squire]

POP! There goes my AG cherry!

Well after a lot of talk and no action I've finally gotten around to putting my 'all in one' theories to practice! What an enjoyable day it was too. Not only my first all in one brew but also my first AG! All went to plan using my little bucket in urn rig which is very similar to wobbly's (I pinched your pond pump idea too... told you we were on the same wavelength) only difference being I used no sparge water at all and I didn't top up any volume for the boil.

Just filled my urn to a volume worked out in Beersmith (final vol + boiler losses + evap + grain absorb) heated it to strike temps, dumped my mash bucket in, recirculated with pump then removed bucket and boiled. Bucket was just slowly hoisted up out of the urn until most of the wort drained then removed.

Equipment used were:
40 Litre Urn
20 Litre bucket with holes drilled and a mesh screen fitted
PVC pipe framework
Curtain rod and handle hoist
2400W Immersion element
Half a metre of rope
Hop Sock

Recipe:
3Kg Pale malt
1.5Kg Wheat malt
150g Carapils
50g Chocolate malt
50g Dark Crystal malt

17g POR @60
20g Amarillo @15
20g Amarillo @5

US56

With a 90 minute mash and a 90 minute boil the full job was done and dusted inside of 4 hours (including heating the mash water). Not bad for my first AG... especially achieving just under 80% efficiency!

Here's some pics, sorry there's not more but some attention had to be paid being 'my first time!'






I still have some changes to make with the framework to make life easier but all in all this was a nice easy method achieved in similar time to some of the partials i've done in the past. Nice and easy to clean up and pack away too.

Thanks goes out to all the people who have had input to this thread, particulary Pat, wobbly and AndrewQLD.

Anyway, time for a brew!

Cheers,

JS

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Top Darts, JS !!! :super:

I like the engineering that went into your setup! Ingenious!!

The best part of this thread is seeing brewers make the leap of faith ...and give it a burl ....

I hope to join the ranks of the ALL-IN-ONER'S very shortly.

Congrats again!

 

[ausdb]

Just filled my urn to a volume worked out in Beersmith (final vol + boiler losses + evap + grain absorb) heated it to strike temps, dumped my mash bucket in, recirculated with pump then removed bucket and boiled. Bucket was just slowly hoisted up out of the urn until most of the wort drained then removed.

Equipment used were:
40 Litre Urn
20 Litre bucket with holes drilled and a mesh screen fitted
PVC pipe framework
Curtain rod and handle hoist

JS your support frame idea is a ripper, makes it all very portable all you really need is access to a power supply and you could almost brew anywhere.

PS I have also sent a few PM's to Flemming lately and he is going to make up some english descriptions of his process as well.

Well done once again

 

[AndrewQLD]

Top stuff JS :super:

80% efficiency,

under 4 hours

AND all on your first AG attempt.

You can't ask for a better brewday than that. My first AG took me 7 hours :huh:

Well done, and you have just proven that this method is a great way to start into AG without doling out big dollars on equipement.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[wobbly]

Good one JS

The recipe looks like the James Squire Golden Ale clone recently posted on this site. My last two brews have basically been this recipe but I am yet to taste test. One of the down sides of bottling I guess.

When you did the boil did you use both the Urn element and the Immersion Element at the same time or just one or the other.

If you used both together how did you "control" the energy input to maintain a "rolling boil" that wasn't very very aggresive?

Like your frame idea and is something I will seriously consider rather than the "sky hook"I was contemplating. I would be interested in what changes you intend making to the frame for future brews.

Will be interested to hear your criteque of your "full boil vol mash" at taste testing time

Cheers

Wobbly