Wyeast Shelf Life

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

I do love the smell of healty yeast.
So YES sometimes, I did shake the shit out of a flask at room temp and it exploded all over me if that counts.
went strait thu the gladrap like a hot knife.

 

[Mickcr250]

Hmm let's just say I pitched the lot? Feeling a bit stupid now although the starter never got any warmer than 24c

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Florian]

The smack pack has a precise amount of nutriant made for the yeast in the pack , this is basicly a mini starter.

No, it's not a mini starter, at least not in the sense of multiplying yeast as it is commonly used on here. All the nutrient pouch does is initiating the yeast’s metabolism, and wyeast state explicitly that activating is beneficial, but not necessary. They also say to let the package swell for 3 hours or more, and if you would send them an email and ask if you should let the package swell for 8 days I'm pretty sure they would recommend not to do this.

https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=16

As for Mr. Malty, I've only been on that site once about three years ago, I just used it as an example. There are other yeast viability calculators on the net, and of course all of them are just a guide, common sense should tell you that. I don't use them and have never used them.

The 3% figure you questioned I plucked out of nowhere, and I don't think it's too unrealistic either.


As you say, do whatever you want, and I have done exactly what you are doing now years ago (you will find evidence somewhere on here), but I now understand that it wasn't the best thing to do, but not the worst either.

Also, to get back to the title of this thread, the official guaranteed shelf life is 6 month. Obviously you can still use it after that in most cases, but Wyeast doesn't guarantee viability anymore. See link above.

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Freshest is best. That's the way to think. Don't buy yeast to brew beer..., think of a recipe then get yeast last so its fresh. Took me a while but I've learnt.

 

[Florian]

Whether you're waiting for the pack to swell or throwing it straight into a starter they're both going to need to be within their optimum temperature range to do their job. I would have thought the most effective time to utilise the nutrient pouch was when yeast cell numbers were low and needed all the help they could get.

Yes, exactly! By all means smack the pack and let it sit for a few hours until it has reached the same temp as your starter. The cells that are still viable will use the nutrient to fire up their metabolism.

The reason a really old smack pack takes a week to swell is not because every cell needs about a week to wake up, and then after a week they're suddenly all starting to produce Co2, no, the cells that are still viable wake up straight away, pretty much the same as a pack that's only a week old.

The reason the pack takes so long to swell is simply because there aren't enough cells to produce enough Co2 within a couple of hours to let the whole pack swell. So those few cells that are left need to work a week to produce the same amount of Co2 that a 100% viable pack would produce in 2 or 3 hours. During that week though many of them will die, so you're better of adding them to a starter and let them multiply as long as they're still capable to do so.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Hmm let's just say I pitched the lot? Feeling a bit stupid now although the starter never got any warmer than 24c
Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk

Mate don't worry yours will be fine.

Yes fresh is best. I got 6-7 very old packs for next to nix. I did it for a few reasons not the least of which was to save some yeast that was going to be throne out. Give a few bucks to my local and test my systems.


To Florian I get where your coming from mate. When I do a starter and place on the stirplate it's at room temperature (kitchen 18-22) but can see that having a lower temp could help (ale temp) but how to do that I'm not shore.

I rinse the.yeast bf I store it to get rid of any flavor issues.

I'm not trying to say I'm correct about what I do.

But for the op I still feel it's better to put a active yeast packet in a starter then build off that.
He's a big boy I'm certain he will work it out.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Just a disclaimer. The op has been to my house and I've discussed the concept with him. As well he has my phone no if needed.

 

[Florian]

But for the op I still feel it's better to put a active yeast packet in a starter then build off that.

Here's the thing: The yeast packet is active a few hours after you have smacked it. Well, the cells that are still alive are active.
The others are dead and will never become active, so why wait any longer?

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Ok here go's.

What's the recommended sg for a starter with a healthy packet of yeast. For say a high gravity 1080 beer. From what ive read it's 1030-1040 max so you don't shock the yeast and stress it.
If you pitching a lesser amount of old (frail) yeast into a 1030sg starter don't you feel there is a risk of shock?
Is there more chance of infection with less active in your starter? That ones rhetorical Btw.
Over all when starting out its a confidence issue when the packet expands YOU KNOW IT'S ACTIVE.
The op asked the life if a packet. Simple answer is a loooong time if you treat the way I've explained.

The premise that my yeast packets are sitting.in a hot room is incorrect.
As soon as activity is seen I place it in a small starter or back in the fridge.
It really is very simple.

 

[Camo6]

Yes, exactly! By all means smack the pack and let it sit for a few hours until it has reached the same temp as your starter. The cells that are still viable will use the nutrient to fire up their metabolism.

The reason a really old smack pack takes a week to swell is not because every cell needs about a week to wake up, and then after a week they're suddenly all starting to produce Co2, no, the cells that are still viable wake up straight away, pretty much the same as a pack that's only a week old.

The reason the pack takes so long to swell is simply because there aren't enough cells to produce enough Co2 within a couple of hours to let the whole pack swell. So those few cells that are left need to work a week to produce the same amount of Co2 that a 100% viable pack would produce in 2 or 3 hours. During that week though many of them will die, so you're better of adding them to a starter and let them multiply as long as they're still capable to do so.

I must admit I've never had a pack of Wyeast take more than a day or two to swell and I think I'd be reluctant to use one that took much longer than that without a stepped starter. I've learnt enough lessons from being lazy in my yeast preparation to realise it's one of the most fundamental practices towards better beer.

I split my packs, when relatively fresh, into 3 vials and the remainder into a starter for the current brew. I almost always smack the pack as I find it helps dilute the contents for splitting. When using the remaining three vials they always get stepped at least three times and it's usually evident overnight whether it's kicking along or not.

I'm still learning this hobby and still put out beers I'm not happy with and I've found the biggest margin for error is with yeast handling. Nowadays I always make sure there's some dry yeast for backup. Problem is its a lot easier than stepping a starter and tends to be the easy fallback plan.

Sorry, straying a bit off topic.

 

[Weizguy]

Lol.....but then again apparently MR Malty is now the "Go to" guide......

Better go stick some pubes on my face and call myself a brewer...

Jamil has pubes stuck on his face?

 

[Weizguy]

There is an approx 45 minute interview with Owen from Wyeast, available on YouTube.

He advises that smacking is a good thing and why. Also that you can pitch or build the yeast once the pack has swelled to half an inch (about 13 mm).

Also provides info about building yeast, why it's good to use about 1.040 and ferment warm, as well as how they get their strains and a whole of yeast-related love.

Not a bad bloke either. Met him at ANHC 2, iirc. Ah, ANHC memories...

 

[beermeupscotty]

There is an approx 45 minute interview with Owen from Wyeast, available on YouTube.

He advises that smacking is a good thing and why. Also that you can pitch or build the yeast once the pack has swelled to half an inch (about 13 mm).

Also provides info about building yeast, why it's good to use about 1.040 and ferment warm, as well as how they get their strains and a whole of yeast-related love.

Not a bad bloke either. Met him at ANHC 2, iirc. Ah, ANHC memories...

(Assuming it's the same vid..) I've been watching this for the past 30 mins - it's a ripper! Loving the science he's dropping (and that he's not trying to push Wyeast product too hard). Seems like a great guy.

Here's the link for those interested - highly recommended! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEkwp_2Yezo

 

[manticle]

I prefer this one for yeast nerdy hotness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vELwUsBmWQ

 

[beermeupscotty]

I prefer this one for yeast nerdy hotness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vELwUsBmWQ

Will check ASAP. Cheers!

 

[Spiesy]

I prefer this one for yeast nerdy hotness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vELwUsBmWQ

lol - was watching that last night… thinking the same thing!

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Wow nice one.
I'm very passionate about yeast.
Almost as much as baking & brewing (almost).
Will watch with interest once the kiddies are fed.

Today's effort;

O.C.D. Does have its advantages.

 

[Yob]

Is that with glycerine for freezing?

 

[MartinOC]

I prefer this one for yeast nerdy hotness

Wot!?? You wanna ask her to get her (lab) gear on & talk "clean" to you??!?!?!?!

 

[Yob]

No martin, we want her to get her lab gear off and talk dirty!!