Which Wyeast For Aussie Style Lager With Flavour

[under]

Hey bribie. Whats the ibus on that thing?

 

[technoicon]

I have done a few lagers now with 2042(Danish) and POR bittering with a bit of cascade @ 30mins.

came out tasting like a fresher Carlton, lighter, and really easily to drink, more flavor.

we finished 1.5 kegs one night, probably the only bad thing about it is its so easy to drink to much of this stuff!

Cheers.

 

[manticle]

yeah, I get ya.
I just reckon that it is almost not worth bothering to brew a golden fizzy lager in this country.
You can get (well, i can in wollongong) Pilsner Urquell, Budvar, Becks, Konisburg, Carlsberg, Heiniken and import Stella all for around $50 a carton.
Once you factor all costs into brewing something like this, including your lager time and elec costs for maintaining the temps, Im not sure you end up ahead.
Where as you can brew some mighty fine belgian or brittish style brews for a fraction of the cost of the carton price.

I also think that Australian Style Lager is not something flavourful. It is a simple lightly malted fizzy beverage with little or no hop or yeast character, and that is what makes it uniquely Aussie. It is also the reason it is hard for home brewers to replicate. There is nothing for your mistakes to hide behind.

Partly the challenge.

Just because I mentioned aussie though, doesn't mean I don't want a bit of malt in there to back it up. The main things I don't like about mainstream aussie lagers are the fact that above 4 degrees they are often unpalatable and the isohop twang. Had QLDKev's aussie coopers pale ale (obviously the coopers yeast added something too) with fresh PoR flowers (same batch I'm using) and it was superb. The flowers had a subtle but uniquely aussie flavour that did come through (bittering only). Keep in mind that I'm not looking for an exact carlton/MB/VB etc clone - just something that will appeal to drinkers of carlton or becks, uses PoR, is clean and refreshing but also has a taste. What Carlton/MB/VB etc should be like rather than is like I guess.

Buying my brother a carton of budvar won't have quite the same meaning. If I get it right it will also make those who only see beer as one thing reconsider the idea of homebrew. I love dark beers and English ales so this just pushes me outside my own boundaries a bit (strange as that may seem)

Oatlands - bribie answered your question on the rice but rice hulls are used to prevent a stuck sparge in a manifold when you have lots of small particles - particularly when you have a high percentage of wheat malt but also with some adjuncts.

Thanks all.

 

[Bribie G]

Further meanderings and thoughts

Actually I find my OZ lagers to be the cheapest beers of all, and using the warmer ferments like they do at CUB the primary fermenting fridge only turns on about 10 times a day. I do my 2,2,2,2 system with 2 in the urns being brewed, 2 in primary - this time of year rather than the ferm fridge I actually do two fermenters sitting on a towel with a 5L little frozen jerry between them and wrapped in a big beach towel and a doonah. If I chill the wort cubes to 10 then pitch, I can get the temp from 12 up to low ale in 10 days by swapping the jerries just daily then every two days.
Then 2 in the lagering fridge and 2 kegged in the kegerator queue.

Cost per brew:

4k malt $8.50
1 k rice $1.20
330g carapils $1.30
Yeast per ferment $1
POR $1.50


Around $13 to $14 for a beer that is more flavoursome and stronger in alcohol than XXXX or Carlton.

Edit: Under, according to Beersmith it comes out at around 28 IBU but I'm a bit doubtful - tastes more like low 20s to me. Next time I have one on tap I'll grab a bottle of Melbourne Bitter from Liquorland round the corner and do a taste off.

 

[pike1973]

when you say 1000 of rice cooked to a slurry is that 1000 cooked or is it 1000 dry and then cooked to a slurry? Please excuse my amature question but im just trying to figure it out. If it is 1000 after cooked to a slurry how much would you start off with dry? Do you then just put the slurry in with the malt in the mash?
Thanks Ads.

 

[manticle]

Slurry needs to be mashed with base malt. Cooking it gelatinises it first so that the starch can get converted by the enzymes in the malt (if I have things straight).

I believe it is final weight. Not sure of exact pre-cooked weight but I'd roughly guess at 1/3.

 

[Bribie G]

when you say 1000 of rice cooked to a slurry is that 1000 cooked or is it 1000 dry and then cooked to a slurry? Please excuse my amature question but im just trying to figure it out. If it is 1000 after cooked to a slurry how much would you start off with dry? Do you then just put the slurry in with the malt in the mash?
Thanks Ads.

No that's dry weight. Aussie malts can convert that quantity of rice just fine. I was talking to one of our distilling brothers the other night and he said that some guys use masses of adjunct and do a 'cereal mash' with an amazingly small amount of malt to convert the starches in the other grains (spuds, cornmeal whatever). I recently did cereal mashes with a kilo of rice and a kilo of polenta for my superstrength American Malt Liquor (currently in primary) and the kilo of grain cooked to a mush was almost instantly converted by just adding 500g of Barrett Burston Ale malt. One minute a thick gluggy porridge almost as thick as mashed potatoes, then 10 stirs of the spoon later the enzymes in the malt had converted the porridge to a thin dextrin soup.

There's a recipe a forum member has sent me that basically uses twice rice to one of malt - before I did my cereal mash experiment I thought the guy was some sort of a wankr but now I realise his recipe actually should work......I'll be doing it next on my list to try for a sort of Vietnamese Bia Hoi :icon_drunk:

 

[Swinging Beef]

Partly the challenge.

Say no more!
Brew like a mad man

I get what you are doing, and it is a noble cause.
I served up some Loenbrau to a couple of died in the wool Carlton drinkers from Melbourne the other day.
"Wow.. this IS nice.. what is this?"
"Its German Lager, guys."
They got the next round and bought themselves more Carlton.
It was funny to see their faces. They werent happy. :icon_cheers:

 

[razz]

Another vote for 2112 Manticle. Very nice beers from this yeast and you don't have to keep the temp to low.

 

[Nick JD]

Here's my oxymoronic Premium CUB Aussie Lager.

18L
2.5kg BB Ale
0.5kg BB Wheat
0.2kg Caraamber
0.1kg Caramunich
0.2kg Sugaz
12g PoR 60min
10g PoR 10min
S189 @ 12C (rest @ 20C at FG, gel and poly @ 12C)

It ticks the megaswill drinker's boxes but is maltier and hoppier. This with PoR and/or Cluster is my quaffer.

 

[Bribie G]

As soon as the current rain band passes over on Thursday I'm going to plant my Cluster rhizome.



Gotta love those old side basher taps :beerbang:

 

[Siborg]

Nice one, manticle.

I've been meaning to try something similar lately. Going for something similar, wanna try rice and have some dry yeast to try. Haven't done a lager, so I might just play with dried yeast for this one.

How does everyone use their rice? Cook it the night before, then the whole lot in with the mash the next day?

 

[hazard]

I also think that Australian Style Lager is not something flavourful. It is a simple lightly malted fizzy beverage with little or no hop or yeast character, and that is what makes it uniquely Aussie.

Really? Hardly unique to Australia - I had a budweiser last week - I think your description above fits it well, and it had even less flavour than a VB. Well, I had to try one, once in my life, and now i can say "never again".

 

[manticle]

No that's dry weight. :icon_drunk:

Makes it easier to calculate then.

What I'm aiming to do with this brew is combine the malty but crisp dryness of a german lager (say dortmunder or somesuch) with the signature hop of many Australian beers (ie PoR). Still unsure at this stage whether I'll use rice or not.

I'll have a read through all the responses again before placing my order.

 

[therook]

manticle,

I may have a spare 2007 slant at home if you want it

Rook

 

[Bribie G]

For a continental lager, maize does an excellent job as well - they use it in a lot of Belgian, Austrian and French beers AFAIK, including dear old Stella - the real Belgian version. I'm entering a Pale Continental Lager in the QABC and it's all my usual suspects but with Polenta subbed for the rice

4000 Galaxy
1000 Polenta
330 Carapils

60 Hallertau Mittlefruh (French pressings) 90 mins
40 Saaz 20 mins
15 Styrian Goldings hop tea into cube

Hallertau french pressed tea into fermenter

S-189

I'm kegging it in about 3 hours, I'll have a sneaky out of the lagering vessel :icon_drunk:

 

[manticle]

Never say no to a slant.

Cheers rook.

 

[drsmurto]

If you want aussie hop flavour in a german style lager i would forgot about rice, corn and the rest of the contents of your pantry and use the KISS principle.

100% pils malt
60/20/0 min addition of POR flowers going light on the late additions.
Whichever wyeast lager strain floats your boat or if you can get your hands on some, WLP833.

You don't need sugar or maize or rice to brew a malty, dry, crisp lager.

EDIT - spelling

 

[under]

Kegged this morning. From the sample glass I had after carbing, wow its going to be a cracker.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 25 - Cream Ale Mk III
Brewer: Dazza
Asst Brewer:
Style: Lite American Lager
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 27.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 6.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4000.00 gm Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EGrain 75.05 %
1000.00 gm Maize, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 18.76 %
330.00 gm Carapils / Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 6.19 %
10.00 gm Galena [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 11.4 IBU
10.00 gm Pearle [8.50 %] (20 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
10.00 gm Pearle [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 5330.00 gm


Maize is Polenta. Id have to say, the perle gives it a taste similar to the Hoegaarden Wit. (White label)

 

[Effect]

If you want aussie hop flavour in a german style lager i would forgot about rice, corn and the rest of the contents of your pantry and use the KISS principle.

100% pils malt
60/20/0 min addition of POR flowers going light on the late additions.
Whichever wyeast lager strain floats your boat or if you can get your hands on some, WLP833.

You don't need sugar or maize or rice to brew a malty, dry, crisp lager.

EDIT - spelling

+1