Two Additions, One Hop - Tweaking No-chill

[Bribie G]

A couple of recent threads got me thinking. One of the downsides of no chill is the hypothesie that flameout and "Hopback" hop additions can be muted in a beer that has been transferred to a cube and allowed to cool down overnight or even longer before pitching, compared to a rapid chilled wort. Or so they say. I don't have a counterflow or plate chiller so can't comment from experience. However I can say that Fresh Wort Kits I have used have tended to lack aroma or late hopping characteritics. So tonight I'm currently doing the following:

4000 Galaxy
333 Carapils

65 degrees 90 mins

500 sugaz in the 90 mins boil
45 NZ Aroma Hallertau 6.5% AA

S-189 dried lager yeast

Now what I've done with the hops is to make 500 ml hop tea (not preboiled in a pan, just making it in the same way as tea tea). I will reserve this until pitching. It smells divine BTW.
the pressed hops will now go in the hopsock and be the bittering hops in the boil.



On pitching, the fridged runnings from the Schott bottle will be poured in.

The question is whether a lot of the AA bearing material has been 'flushed out' already and whether the pressed hops will be up to the bittering job.

Reporting later tonight

 

[DUANNE]

i cant comment on the reboiling of the hops , but to get great late hop flavour with ncing i put a hop adition in the cube then pour the hot wort on top.
it works an absolute treat in apas and ipas but havent tried it with any other styles. i do have an esb fermenting now though that had 30g styrians in the cube and its looking good to.

 

[thesunsettree]

A couple of recent threads got me thinking. One of the downsides of no chill is the hypothesie that flameout and "Hopback" hop additions can be muted in a beer that has been transferred to a cube and allowed to cool down overnight or even longer before pitching, compared to a rapid chilled wort. Or so they say. I don't have a counterflow or plate chiller so can't comment from experience. However I can say that Fresh Wort Kits I have used have tended to lack aroma or late hopping characteritics. So tonight I'm currently doing the following:

4000 Galaxy
333 Carapils

65 degrees 90 mins

500 sugaz in the 90 mins boil
45 NZ Aroma Hallertau 6.5% AA

S-189 dried lager yeast

Now what I've done with the hops is to make 500 ml hop tea (not preboiled in a pan, just making it in the same way as tea tea). I will reserve this until pitching. It smells divine BTW.
the pressed hops will now go in the hopsock and be the bittering hops in the boil.

View attachment 36296

On pitching, the fridged runnings from the Schott bottle will be poured in.

The question is whether a lot of the AA bearing material has been 'flushed out' already and whether the pressed hops will be up to the bittering job.

Reporting later tonight

oooohhh, watching with anticipation as i intend to no chill

matt

 

[Bribie G]

Beerhog, do you mean you just put pellets in the cube itself and pour the hot wort in? Sort of like emulating a hop back? Haven't tried this myself as I don't like the idea of vegetation in the cube, if I'm going to let it sit a few days.

However I could do that version as well as a 'side by side' comparison with what I'm doing now, use a basic bitterer in the boil, put the NZ Hallertau in the cube, and strain out the hop flowers on transferring to the FV ?

**** I love this stuff :lol: :lol:

Time to put my lab coat on

 

[DUANNE]

exactly what i mean. i had the same thoughts about the vegetal flavours before i did it the first time,but even when i havent pitched the cube for a month or two i havent had it yet.id still be a bit shy about using fuggles though ,that stuff is grassy to me at the best of times!

 

[thesunsettree]

exactly what i mean. i had the same thoughts about the vegetal flavours before i did it the first time,but even when i havent pitched the cube for a month or two i havent had it yet.id still be a bit shy about using fuggles though ,that stuff is grassy to me at the best of times!

sad face, i like fuggles

matt

 

[Barley Belly]

View attachment 36296

Bribie you are one full on brewer

Most people start the day with a bottle of OJ and a bowl of cereal

And you are startin with a bottle of yeast and a bowl of hops

FULL F$#%ING ON DUDE!!!!!!!!!

 

[RdeVjun]

**** I love this stuff

Time to put my lab coat on

No need for the lab coat BribieG... but if it makes you feel better!

This is what I really dig about the home brewing caper- coming up with an idea, nutting out the practicalities, floating it by a few of the big brains, if it still flies (or not!) then rolling up the sleeves and giving it a whirl. Who cares if it doesn't work, it isn't as though you've risked the farm but if your hypothesis is right, you're on a winner! If not, well you've probably got some quite decent beer anyway, even if it wasn't quite what was expected. B)

So that's the hop tea in the Schottie? Go the whole hops too, giving this the best chance for success IMO.

Oh BTW, love your work- that's some hard core brekkie spread there! :super:
(Yeah, beaten...)
Ed: Speeling...

 

[Bribie G]

Houston, we have bittering

Say again Apollo

Houston, we have bittering, we have good bittering

Copy your bittering, Apollo


:beerbang: :beerbang:

Now let's see how the 'recombination' of flavours go after pitching :icon_cheers:

 

[Nick JD]

Awesome. :super:

 

[RdeVjun]

Copy Apollo... Commencing pre- ignition sequence...

Capture affirmative- Hallertau.

Start roll manoeuvre, all floors clear...

 

[rendo]

VERY AWESOME...

BG...I am wondering how long did you leave the hops to steep for in the plunger before you 'plunged' to strain them out and pour off the runnings?

Other than that I am going to do exactly this experiment next brew!!

CHEERS!!

(ps....since the runnings aren't getting boiled for 10-15mins+, there is a slight chance that there could be some nasties from the plunger. SO everyone do yourself a favour and clean your plunger or use a new one and keep it as your beer brewing plunger. To clean it, take the whole plunger apart, eg unscrew the plunger, you should have at least 3-5 seperate bits, scrub, dishwasher, scrub etc, get it sparkly!! )

EDIT: even then a new one should be cleaned, so the short of it is to use a thoroughly cleaned plunger

Houston, we have bittering, we have good bittering

Copy your bittering, Apollo


:beerbang: :beerbang:

Now let's see how the 'recombination' of flavours go after pitching :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

Rendo, the plunger set was well scalded with boiling water then treated with no rinse Starsan, then more boiling water, then the 'runnings' were poured into a sanitised Schott bottle and put in a cold fridge. I'll be pitching tomorrow afternoon. The thing about hops is that they are also, to an extent, self sanitising!

I simply put in some hop flowers, poured in boiling water from the kettle and plunged after about a minute. I did three batches to fill the 500g bottle, because it's just a 1 or 2 cup plunger. Brand new from Woolies about $9. I've also used hop pellets and they work well for making hop tea, can't comment yet about whether hop flowers or pellets go best.

 

[rendo]

Thanks BribieG,

Glad I asked, I would have left it in there way longer So I wont be now, just 1-2mins tops. I have a 2L plunger, its my friend for steeping spec grain/malt and soon to be for hops too!

Has your plunger been used for making coffee? If so just do me a favour when you're bored. Take it to bits and you will see coffee stains, crap, grind, for sure! Plungers are tops, but coffee grind gets everywhere, just like sand at the beach, I dont know the sand gets into all those places! Yes hops are self-sanitising, just as coffee plungers are self-defecating

Rendo

Rendo, the plunger set was well scalded with boiling water then treated with no rinse Starsan, then more boiling water, then the 'runnings' were poured into a sanitised Schott bottle and put in a cold fridge. I'll be pitching tomorrow afternoon. The thing about hops is that they are also, to an extent, self sanitising!

I simply put in some hop flowers, poured in boiling water from the kettle and plunged after about a minute. I did three batches to fill the 500g bottle, because it's just a 1 or 2 cup plunger. Brand new from Woolies about $9. I've also used hop pellets and they work well for making hop tea, can't comment yet about whether hop flowers or pellets go best.

 

[BjornJ]

BribieG,
that is an awesome experiment!

I did a new beer recipe for 22 litres in beersmith and added 45 gr of NZ Hallertauer with 6.5% AA.
After 2 min of boil it adds 4 IBU to the beer.

But I guess it doesn't matter?
Whatever IBUs you extract from the resin with the essential oils will be added to the beer when adding the hop tea, rather than in the boil.
Or do you think it would be a good idea to add these 4 IBUs to your recipe as you are actually boiling the remaining hops for a full 60 mins, extracting whatever IBUs before adding the 4 IBUs from the hop tea?


thanks
Bjorn

 

[Bribie G]

I wasn't too fussed about the final IBUs, the purpose of the exercise was to 'quarantine' a lot of the essential oils and fragrant stuff and add them back in after no-chilling in the cube, to see what the hop characteristics of the final beer would be. Only 4 more sleeps before I bottle, then I can have a sneak preview. As you can see I haven't done a three month lager here, just a 10 day crash - if it's good enough for Melbourne Bitter .....

Edit: essential oils not resins, different thing oops.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

This should work reasonably well - using hop flowers will certainly mean that a hell of a lot of the alpha acids wont have been dissolved into the wort in your press - so they'll certainly be there in your boil to add bittering.

I'd be interested to see what (if any) difference there would be repeating the experiment with the same amounts of pelletised hops where the resins are able to dissolve more quickly.

A nice way to get a little double duty out of a dual purpose hop like Galaxy. And a nice spirit of adventure too Bribie.

Thirsty

PS - you should give hops directly in the cube a go too - its yet another dimension to this caper. I get a different sort of aroma again, and a particularly strong and "deep" hop flavour from cube hops.

 

[Nick JD]

What about cold steeping the hops in the fridge over a week or two? That ought to keep all the aromas well locked in. Use the hops for the bittering and add the tea in the cold crash phase.

Essential oils and heat makes the house smell nice...

EDIT: would a weak alcohol solution (say 20%) dissolve the bittering compounds as well as the aromatic essential oils? Even if it did, they would never be isomerized if they were only ever kept at 4C during the whole process.

 

[BjornJ]

I believe compounds are either "water loving" or "water hating" meaning that they will either dissolve in water or in a solvent like petroleum. That is why a butter stain can not be dissolved by water alone, but will dissolve in another non-water based solvent.

http://www.byo.com/stories/techniques/arti...5-fabulous-foam

 

[Nick JD]

So does dry hopping require some alcohol in the ferment before the oils are released?

Can we not make a hop tea without heat?

How do they make the liquid hop essences? Steam distilation? Soaked in solvent?

What's actually going on in a dry hop situation if the flavour/aroma compounds in hops are hydrophobic?

I figure keeping heat and fermentation activity away from hops is a good idea to retain their volatile compounds. When you stick your face in a glass to take a sip you want all those volatiles to go BANG when they hit your nose rising on the carbonation.