Cube chilling- possible alternative to hop additions

[laxation]

If you add hops at regular times and then no-chill, does that result in just the bitterness coming through?

 

[Lionman]

I like that idea, I've been using a strainer but the hop mess that comes out the bottom of the cube soon renders the strainer useless, do you have any blockage issues using the hop spider this way?

It's not completely painless, but I feel its worth it. Depending on the amount of hops in the cube, usually the last few liters might take 10mins or so to get through the spider. I find swishing the spider in a circular motion encourages the wort to flow by keeping the solids moving.

Using a lauter helix in the kettle helps even more as it means there are literally only cube hops in the cube, no kettle trub or kettle hops. I think the trub is worse for clogging (ie cold break protein cruddy stuff whatever it is).

One major advantage is that harvesting yeast is much easier as there is basically no crap in the fermenter. The majority of slurry will be yeast and I feel much more confident just pitching a cup of slurry from one brew to another.

If you add hops at regular times and then no-chill, does that result in just the bitterness coming through?

I'm not sure exactly, but I think most people no chilling generally stick to one bittering addition and one cube addition (calculated as around 15mins of bittering), or they let the wort cool to 80c before cubing and plan their hop additions around that so that isomerization has largely stopped by the time the wort is cubed.

 

[Lionman]

If you add hops at regular times and then no-chill, does that result in just the bitterness coming through?

In short though, no. I have only ever no chilled and have produced some very hoppy beers. From spicy/herbal european ales to fruity/tropical IPAs. I'm not disappointed with the hopiness of my beers (still have some areas of improvement though, don't we all?)

I do plan on getting a chiller at some stage though just so I can see what the real difference is.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have been reading more and more about late hop additions, polyphenols, and dry hopping Charlie Bamforth did a podcast where he touched on the subject of polyphenols from hops. As Gordon Strong suggests the wort must be cooled down quickly after the late hop additions, but if it is still possible to get polyphenols coming from cool (dry hopping) I wonder how much actually comes through from cube additions.
Another article from Palmer in BYO.
https://byo.com/bock/item/1762-hop-polyphenols-advanced-brewing

 

[Lionman]

I have made cubed hopped beers with no dry hopping and you still get quite a bit of hop flavour. Dry hopping usually makes beer better though, and more hoppier, if you use enough.

I think chilling beer gives you finer control over the final product, and their are definitely compromises with no chill, but I think for a lot of home brewers, the beer made by cube hopping is great and the process is easier/faster so it's worth it.

No chill is just another tool at the home brewers disposal at the end of the day.

 

[Schikitar]

I've been cube hopping lately, just yesterday I opened up a one and half week old cube that had 40g of hops in it. That resulted in about 2-3 litres of goopy mess at the bottom of the cube, which is surprising given the small amount of hops. When I pour that through my strainer it pretty much instantly clogs it up so I end up throwing caution to the wind and just chucking about half the sludge into the fermenter and the other half down the drain. I'm trying to think of a much better way to manage this. I was thinking about some sort of cylindrical strainer with a screw/clip on cap that would fit through the opening of the cube and then on pitching day you could retrieve it back out of the cube either by a bit of builders string attached or something similar, kinda like this - http://www.kitchenwarehouse.com.au/Mondo-Cylinder-Tea-Infuser - it has to be quite long and skinny though.

The other thought was to put my grain bag inside the fermenter, shake up and dump the cube and then, just like when doing BIAB, raise and drain.. hmmmm, maybe that would be better?! Thoughts/advice?

 

[laxation]

I'm not sure exactly, but I think most people no chilling generally stick to one bittering addition and one cube addition (calculated as around 15mins of bittering), or they let the wort cool to 80c before cubing and plan their hop additions around that so that isomerization has largely stopped by the time the wort is cubed.

Cool, cheers. I've got one of each that I have just kegged - so I'll find out the difference in a week or so

 

[Lionman]

That tea infuser would be too small, the hops in it will swell and fill it and you will get rubbish utilisation. Might work for smaller cube additions, maybe.

You can put a bag in the cube but you will have the same issue really. The bag will swell, and you won't be able to get it out of the cube/it will block the cube opening.

I have tried using a bag for filtering but I found the bag gets clogged and you end up with it ballooning with wort and it becomes hard to actually get the wort out. Made a big mess that day haha.

Sticking them in loose and then filtering on the way to the fermenter seems the best solution for me so far. Its not super fast but it works with a bit of patience and maybe a bit of cramp from swirling the spider. No pain , no gain.

 

[Lionman]

Cool, cheers. I've got one of each that I have just kegged - so I'll find out the difference in a week or so

I'm sure they will both be tasty.

 

[laxation]

When I pour that through my strainer it pretty much instantly clogs it up

What sort of strainer do you use?

Using something like this I have had no problems - albeit using 2x smaller cubes with 25-30g in each one. Can you use something like that, stop halfway to smack out the hops, and then keep going?

 

[Schikitar]

Yeah, my strainer is similar, might see if I can find a larger conical strainer, something with a bit more depth. I'll take a photo next time it happens..

 

[Schikitar]

That tea infuser would be too small, the hops in it will swell and fill it and you will get rubbish utilisation. Might work for smaller cube additions, maybe.

Yeah, that was just an example of the design, I was thinking something much longer, something that almost runs the full height of the cube, so the hops have room to expand and impart their goodness!

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Yeah, that was just an example of the design, I was thinking something much longer, something that almost runs the full height of the cube, so the hops have room to expand and impart their goodness!

That is the problem I am trying to avoid, it isn't just goodness that's imparted, it's the tannins that go with it, there must be a way around it, even though I never leave the wort more than 24 hours before pitching the yeast I still have concerns about the tannins, while we do a vigorous boil to eliminate the tannins, adjust pH in the lauter, we leave hops in the mix while the wort cools ?

 

[Schikitar]

Something else I was considering, if you cube hopped a beer and put it away in storage for a week or two could that have a disastrous impact on flavour? Considering the average dry hop is say 4-5 days and hops like galaxy can imaprt those grass-like flavours after a short time.. Thoughts?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I don't have experience of this but it is not something I would do, I will play around with late additions a bit longer before I go back to chilling the wort.

 

[BKBrews]

I'm all out of free keg space, so considering doing some cubing so that I can still brew.

I don't see the issue with doing all of my recipes as normal and just transferring into a sanitized cube, ensuring there is zero headspace when I put the lid on.

Most of my recipes I let naturally cool to 85 degrees before I start chilling anyway, so plan would be to start the transfer to the cube as soon as it hits this temp. Store for up to a month until a keg is free'd up.

 

[JDW81]

Something else I was considering, if you cube hopped a beer and put it away in storage for a week or two could that have a disastrous impact on flavour? Considering the average dry hop is say 4-5 days and hops like galaxy can imaprt those grass-like flavours after a short time.. Thoughts?

Nah mate, totally fine. I (and may others) do it all the time.

I'm pretty heavy handed with my cube hops, and have had them sit for months with no issues at all. I make an imperial India Black Ale, which has about 300g of late hops (which gets distributed into the cubes - about 100g each), and it's bloody lovely, even after sitting in the cube for ages. Same goes for lighter beers.

If you sanitise your gear, and have sound brewing practices, your cube hopped beers will be just as good (with no grass flavours) as your others.

JD

 

[laxation]

Just out of curiosity, any idea why that is?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I would like to contiue using the no chill, but I do notice the extra bitterness/harshness from the late addition, I have just bottled the last batch I made where I added the last hops after the steep directly into the fermenter with the cooled wort. I will be repeating this on my next 2 brews and seeing what the outcome is.
I am not influenced by any leaching into the hot wort from the plastic, just the taste and the fact that so many people who are far more knowledgable than us plebs advise on chilling the wort within 30 mins or so after the last addition. If I could find a solution it would save me the added work of dragging out hoses and immersion chiller, connecting it all up to the pump and a return to the water tank, not something I relish.

 

[GalBrew]

Has anyone used lupulin powder in a cubed brew? I would be very interested to see if that could cut down on the extra bitterness while keeping maximum hop flavour.