Cube chilling- possible alternative to hop additions

[wide eyed and legless]

Put an order in for the Cryo hops but the shipping was to much, the only way is to either wait till they get here or a bulk buy from a USA retailer, I reckon I can wait.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/articl...ill-a-new-oil-rich-powder-change-hoppy-beers/

 

[Lionman]

Has anyone used lupulin powder in a cubed brew? I would be very interested to see if that could cut down on the extra bitterness while keeping maximum hop flavour.

It is meant to be a bit smoother as there will be less astringency from the vegetative mass of the hops which are removed. Actual bitterness though is a product of AAs + Heat + Time though. Reduce one or more of these to reduce bitterness.

If you're after big flavour, low bitterness then do big cube addition after letting the wort cool to 80c in the kettle.

Lupulin and other hop concentrates will have different character to hop pellets, in much the same way hop pellets have a bit of a different character to hop flowers.

Put an order in for the Cryo hops but the shipping was to much, the only way is to either wait till they get here or a bulk buy from a USA retailer, I reckon I can wait.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/articl...ill-a-new-oil-rich-powder-change-hoppy-beers/

You can get a pound of LupuLN2 Citra (450g) for $112 delivered on eBay.

This works to about the equivalent of about $12/100g of pellets assuming the powder is twice as strong (24%AA vs 12%AA).

Given I can get Citra pellets locally for about $8.60/100g (if buying 1lb at a time) it is quite a bit more expensive. Roughly 50% more.

 

[Schikitar]

Hey y'all, I didn't want to start another cube thread so just tacking on here with a couple quick questions;

1. How important is it to squeeze and minimise the amount of air in the cube after dumping to it and getting that lid on? For example, I've read that you shouldn't put the lid on the kettle during/after the boil due to DMS, so is it safe to assume that if you have a lot of headspace in the cube and cap it that that could lead to off flavours? Or is it time dependent, not a problem if dumping to FV the next day for example but could be an issue for long term storage?

2. I read something the other day on here and cannot find it - it was a method for taking a 1-3 litres of wort from the kettle, chilling it and then next day running the clear wort off for boiling and doing late addition hops before dumping straight into the FV - basically as a work around for cube hopping and minmising the amount of trub/hop-mass going into the FV. Frustrating the bejesus out of me that I can't find it (am also juggling a few projects at the minute and have about a 1000 tabs open)! Can anyone enlighten me?

I'd like to try #2 but it kinda depends if leaving my cube short as mentioned in #1 is going to come at the price of off flavours..

 

[Dae Tripper]

For the first question,
It is of upmost importance to get that lid on and the air out at a respectable temperature ie greater than 80c, I aim higher to reduce infection chances. Otherwise you are giving everything at chance to infect your wort. DMS will be removed during the boil, so afterwards lids on.
Don't play with the system, exploding cubes are not fun.

Number 2 - Just cube hop, so much less stuffing around. If your boiling hops in a tiny pot it affects its efficiency ie needing more hops for the same results. If your worried don't pour the last litre in.

 

[Schikitar]

Thanks, I'm not having infection issues, I'm just more curious as to whether or not extra headspace in the cube is okay or not - could the air/condensation in the headspace potentially harm the wort? If it doesn't then I can get a cleaner transfer to my FV because I won't be pulling so much junk from the bottom of my kettle to fill the cube.. it's either that or I get a smaller cube I suppose..

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Hey y'all, I didn't want to start another cube thread so just tacking on here with a couple quick questions;

1. How important is it to squeeze and minimise the amount of air in the cube after dumping to it and getting that lid on? For example, I've read that you shouldn't put the lid on the kettle during/after the boil due to DMS, so is it safe to assume that if you have a lot of headspace in the cube and cap it that that could lead to off flavours? Or is it time dependent, not a problem if dumping to FV the next day for example but could be an issue for long term storage?

2. I read something the other day on here and cannot find it - it was a method for taking a 1-3 litres of wort from the kettle, chilling it and then next day running the clear wort off for boiling and doing late addition hops before dumping straight into the FV - basically as a work around for cube hopping and minmising the amount of trub/hop-mass going into the FV. Frustrating the bejesus out of me that I can't find it (am also juggling a few projects at the minute and have about a 1000 tabs open)! Can anyone enlighten me?

I'd like to try #2 but it kinda depends if leaving my cube short as mentioned in #1 is going to come at the price of off flavours..

Your 2nd question it is what I have started doing and it works a treat, hops aren't compromised this is the thread you were looking for. I didn't know it existed until someone else posted it recently.
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/late-hopping-and-no-chilling-guide.55801/

 

[Dae Tripper]

Thanks, I'm not having infection issues, I'm just more curious as to whether or not extra headspace in the cube is okay or not - could the air/condensation in the headspace potentially harm the wort? If it doesn't then I can get a cleaner transfer to my FV because I won't be pulling so much junk from the bottom of my kettle to fill the cube.. it's either that or I get a smaller cube I suppose..

Not OK. You will get an infection if you don't get most of the air out because the wort it used to kill everything with heat, large airspace will give stuff a place to hide. Other options for less hops to fv is siphoning it out to the fv
Cube size is variable, see the pic

 

[fungrel]

Rather than cube hopping, I've just been dropping them and doing a quick whirlpool before transferring as to not bring as much plant matter over into the cube.

I don't like the flavour profile I get from too many hops going into the cube. I think it has to do with the plant matter sitting for an extended period of time in the cube. Although if you're dry hopping, you'll more than likely cover and subtle flavour differences.

Could be wrong about the science, but I'm sure of my sensory eval.

 

[fungrel]

Rather than cube hopping, I've just been dropping them in to the kettle and doing a quick whirlpool before transferring. I try to not bring as much plant matter over into the cube.

I don't like the flavour profile I get from too many hops going into the cube. I think it has to do with the plant matter sitting for an extended period of time in the cube. Although if you're dry hopping, you'll more than likely cover and subtle flavour differences.

Could be wrong about the science, but I'm sure of my sensory eval.

 

[GalBrew]

What are people’s strategies for minimising hop sludge transfer into the fermenter from the cube in heavily cube hopped beers?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

What are people’s strategies for minimising hop sludge transfer into the fermenter from the cube in heavily cube hopped beers?

Sieve in a big funnel. Food handling gloves to squeeze out the juice (if its flowers)
The big funnel I have has a fine screen that fits in that's best for pellets.

 

[Schikitar]

With regards to the Argon Method I have an 'outside the square' question, feel free to shut it down immediately, or discuss heatedly!

What if you fermented out a beer (lets say an IPA) and you've dry hopped it but want some extra aroma/flavour prior to bottling. Could you draw off 3L of that cold crashed finished beer, whack it on the stove, add your priming sugar and then add what was the dry hops back in as flameout additions (via hop spider) to grab any last remaining oils from the hop mass, then pitch it back into the brew before bottling? Is that just going too far? Reuse Recycle? Discuss..

 

[manticle]

You will change the profile of that drawn off beer, remove/reduce the alcohol (which is part of flavour and balance) and cook any yeast in suspension.

 

[manticle]

Thanks, I'm not having infection issues, I'm just more curious as to whether or not extra headspace in the cube is okay or not - could the air/condensation in the headspace potentially harm the wort? If it doesn't then I can get a cleaner transfer to my FV because I won't be pulling so much junk from the bottom of my kettle to fill the cube.. it's either that or I get a smaller cube I suppose..

Squeeze harder.

Unless you are filling a 25 L cube with 8 L, some strong knees should get most of it out. Cubes are flexy when hot.

 

[Rocker1986]

With regards to the Argon Method I have an 'outside the square' question, feel free to shut it down immediately, or discuss heatedly!

What if you fermented out a beer (lets say an IPA) and you've dry hopped it but want some extra aroma/flavour prior to bottling. Could you draw off 3L of that cold crashed finished beer, whack it on the stove, add your priming sugar and then add what was the dry hops back in as flameout additions (via hop spider) to grab any last remaining oils from the hop mass, then pitch it back into the brew before bottling? Is that just going too far? Reuse Recycle? Discuss..

There probably aren't any oils left in the hop mass to be extracted anyway. You'd have better results simply making a hop tea with fresh hops in a few hundred mL of water and adding it at bottling time.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

With regards to the Argon Method I have an 'outside the square' question, feel free to shut it down immediately, or discuss heatedly!

What if you fermented out a beer (lets say an IPA) and you've dry hopped it but want some extra aroma/flavour prior to bottling. Could you draw off 3L of that cold crashed finished beer, whack it on the stove, add your priming sugar and then add what was the dry hops back in as flameout additions (via hop spider) to grab any last remaining oils from the hop mass, then pitch it back into the brew before bottling? Is that just going too far? Reuse Recycle? Discuss..

According to Dr Charlie Bamforth there are many commercial breweries who go through the whole process of making the beer to the finished product without using a single hop, then adding hop oil prior to packaging.

 

[Schikitar]

Okay, well it was just a thought, I was wondering if dry hopping actually does a good job of hop oil extraction or not - anyone got any stats on that? What I might do is when I pull the dry hops I might see if I can make a worthwhile hop tea with clean water just to see if they have any more to give or not. I'm just being a hop tight-arse, haha!

Squeeze harder.

Yeah but it's really hot and I need a third arm/hand to do the lid! Family units never about in my time of crisis, or maybe I should get a big F clamp!

You will change the profile of that drawn off beer, remove/reduce the alcohol (which is part of flavour and balance) and cook any yeast in suspension.

Yep, very good points!

 

[Rocker1986]

Considering the hops completely disintegrate when thrown into the beer as a dry hop I'd say it's a pretty good method of extracting oils and stuff from them.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have posted this before in another thread, don't know which one, but some useful information on hopping and dry hopping.
http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf

 

[manticle]

Okay, well it was just a thought, I was wondering if dry hopping actually does a good job of hop oil extraction or not - anyone got any stats on that? What I might do is when I pull the dry hops I might see if I can make a worthwhile hop tea with clean water just to see if they have any more to give or not. I'm just being a hop tight-arse, haha!


Yeah but it's really hot and I need a third arm/hand to do the lid! Family units never about in my time of crisis, or maybe I should get a big F clamp!

I squeeze between my knees with pants firmly on. Shorts ain't so good, bare ball brewing is asking for trouble. Another way is one knee pressing the upright cube against a wall.