Throw Out Your Cubes

[Deebo]

One verified example of CB living in wort or beer - just one.

You have several thousand years of brewing history and practice in which to find an example.

Again not saying you are wrong - just asking you, kindly and politely, to provide some reasonable evidence for your assertions.

There is a lot of experiential data that suggests CB is not an issue with no chill, wort or beer. Can you provide evidence to the contrary?


Nothing I have written there is rude or antagonistic and I am interested in any real data you may have.

I'm confused about this argument, why would CB be more likely in no chill than chilling?
Wouldnt the heat make it harder for it to survive? Or is it the time before pitching yeast that is more risky?

 

[alcoadam]

My concerns are really growing too.....should I continue to use my travel flask? (it's filled with hot liquid and air tight)

 

[jyo]

People keep banging on about bloody Botulism and VOC's in plastics but I gotta say shouldn't we be more worried about alcoholism?

Maaade, you gan goan ged fugged! I'm nodan an alco... jus wait I godda bash the missus....


I want to get a plate chiller for my highly hopped APA's.
Can I adjust my recipes to produce cracking highly hopped beers using no-chill? I think so. So do some judges (not magistrates).

Do I worry about the possible leaching of plasticisers in hot wort? A little, tiny bit.

Will I still no chill when I get my chiller? Fo shiz.

I would also like to hear of one accountable example of botulism in wort/beer, Chumbalumbalar infinity.

 

[Cocko]

Chumbalumbalar infinity.

Best. post. ever.

:super:

 

[sim]

mahhhhhhh

+1

 

[the_new_darren]

I'm confused about this argument, why would CB be more likely in no chill than chilling?
Wouldnt the heat make it harder for it to survive? Or is it the time before pitching yeast that is more risky?

Yeah it does cause some confusion mostly by bigoted individuals who refuse to recognise the possibilities of reality.

Clostridium botulinum (CB) is heat resistant so is not generally killed by the boil. If your cube is NOT thoroughly cleaned and sanitised there could be a problem. The more often that a single cube is used the more likely that an "adverse" event will occur.

CB thrive in anaerobic conditions (this is wort without oxygen as usual with a no-chill batch due to the boil and a sealed cube)

The reason why it wont survive in a chilled brew rather than no-chill is decause of oxygen.

No chill is devoid of oxygen, the perfect breeding ground for anaerobic bacteria.

cheers

the_new_darren

PS: I have not addressed the leaching of plastics from cubes designed for COLD WATER in this post

NO_CHILL at your own peril.
cheers Dr K

 

[argon]

On the Internet not answering a specific and repeated question (from Manticle to the_new_douche) is as good as an admission in error.


My money's on tnd never finding that evidence.

 

[ekul]

I meant to write this last night but i must have forgotten to press send.

I don't think a nochill cube is anaerobic. Try as i might there is always a small air bubble in there. PLus this patent for using hops extract to kill botulin spores makes me think nochill is safe. Personally i'd be more worried about waht the alcohol is doing to me, there's plenty of evidence that says its bad for us!

 

[WarmBeer]

Verified non-dead no-chill brewer here.

Put me down as a +1 on the Manticle side of the argument.

Oh, and my mum's non-dead, too, and she has drunk my beer as well...

 

[bum]

Grow out your pubes.

 

[yardy]

Bring it on skynet, we're training our knees to squeeze steel.

mate..the new and improved stainless steel cube has a QD fitting and a relief valve.

 

[donburke]

mate..the new and improved stainless steel cube has a QD fitting and a relief valve.

has there been any discussion before about using a keg as a no chill vessel ?

 

[yardy]

not sure, you want to be the first ?

 

[Phoney]

I got botulism poisoning from a no chilled beer once. I drank a whole heap of it one night. Then the next morning I woke up covered in dried puke, my head was pouding, couldnt remember anything from the night before and felt sick as a dog for the next 24 hours.

Be careful folks.

 

[donburke]

darren,


please re-read my question, the parameters were already given

Hey Don,

What is the ambient temperature?

Can I whirlpool or stir?

What are the size of the container?

If its tall and thin like most fermenters and not sealed (aka no-chill cubes) I cannot see a problem with cooling.

2 days maybe?

lets get the myth busters stuff going....inoculate wort with Clostridium botulinum and see if it grows under anaerobic conditions. Compare low-hopped wort with highly hopped wort.

Sounds like a challenge to me. Would answer the debate (hypothesis/null hypothesis).

cheers

Dr. Darren

 

[bradsbrew]

has there been any discussion before about using a keg as a no chill vessel ?

not sure, you want to be the first ?

FFS do a search guys. Of course there has. It was frowned upon becuase it would suck air in through the poppets as it cooled. But I reckon you could combat that by running a short line from gas to beer QD's with JG fittings.

 

[donburke]

not sure, you want to be the first ?

truman will

 

[yardy]

FFS do a search guys

FFS I'm so embarrassment..

 

[goomboogo]

Yeah, likewise, an airtight seal is exactly why CB will thrive................anaerobic conditions (no air)

tnd

You really are obsessed with Ross. I'm sure his business is going ok but I'm positive it needs oxygen to survive. Ross probably does too. Did he deprive you of oxygen when he started selling all your grain?

 

[pk.sax]

truman will

All power to Mr T

PS: I had a genuine idea about using a keg to chill.
If a copper coil were to be wrapped along the inside of a keg. Fill the keg with wort and then run cooling water through the coil to chill. That's a massive surface area and any cold break will form in the keg, that will double up as yeast nutrient in the fv when chilled to te right temp, albeit, the break will have been precipitated nicely avoiding dissolved proteins. The coil will be connected to the line in/out of the keg and fed cooled water with a small pump setup with a temp controller to keep the brew cool through ferment. The org would be doctored with a suitably modified spring to let CO2 out.
Setting up a 'jacket' chilled SS fermenter that will fit nicely in the usual chesty arrangement or outside with a jacket to keep it insulate and fed cold water. I'm sure with a few holes and welds the functionality of a conical fermenter can be realised.

Pssstttt: I still vote for steel crushing knees you pussies.