Throw Out Your Cubes

[sim]

will somebody please think of the children!

 

[sim]

"what kind of tea did you say you brew?"

 

[ekul]

I don't know if this has any bearing at all but in the spirit of ahb i thought i'd add it.

In a recrystallisation you get bigger crystals if the solvent temperature is lowered slowly than if you fawst chill it, as the crystals have more time to form and join together. So *maybe* the nochill means that more cold break will settle out because the protein size is bigger? I do know that the top half of my cube is very clear (until i shake it up to oxygenate!).

 

[pk.sax]

When I wanted clear wort I just siphoned off the top of break in the cube. It's easier for me ATM than working out how to use/dispose a million litres of water in an apartment.
Plan is to get a plate chiller someday and work out a super efficient and fast way that uses 1 bag of ice to chill before I do. In the meantime, my kettle needs a pickup tube made and a HLT would be very nice. Just don't see the priority of chilling ATM.
Chilled out - fool.

PS: anyone know if Ross would sell a 3/4" to 1/2" reducer? Not on his site and needed. Or maybe somewhere I can get a 3/4" comp fitting to accept a 1/2" copper tube.

PPS: I don't pay for water. And I wonder why we would with how much there is in Cairns. The body corp can pay for my brewing water.

 

[the_new_darren]

If you're talking commercial breweries then no chill is a completely impractical and commercially unviable option.

This is a different scale entirely. On an HB scale no chill has been proven to work for many.

Your suspicions aren't based either on experience nor experiments in brewing science and haven't been borne out in reality thus far. Why you continually repeat them is beyond me. dr K spoke about parrots - you are one. Botulism is not an issue with no chill.

I'm not sure what filthy cubes have to do with anything. Anyone but the stupidest NC person will start with clean equipment, including their cube. For my money, the cube should be sanitised as well.

Womanticle,

Still not sure what it is about coolships etc for cooling wort quickly. Most commercial brewers I know of (including centuries ago) transfer wort to "fermentation containers" that could obviously have been used to "no-chill" wort!!

Now I am not talking about "megabreweries" we see today where hundreds of thousands of litres of wort are produced in a single day, I am considering a minor brewery that would make maybe 10,000 litres in a week. These breweries are equipped with several "grants", storage and fermentation tanks that are mostly unoccupied for days if not weeks at a time. Can you explain that beyond the "commercially unviable"?? Perhaps the pundits of "no-chill" are just the parrots that DK was referring to???

Filthy cubes loaded with heat resistant bacteria are a potential problem. Even Thirsty Boy has admitted the possibility!!

For reference, blood transfusions have routinely performed successfully since early last century. It took 80 or so years before a link between infectious disease (Hepatitis B then HIV and Hepatitis C) transmittion. This was only the case because thousands of transfusions happen everyday and a direct cause-effect could be easily demonstrated. Why did it take sooooo long for the most rigorous testing facilities, with the most highly qualified physicians to determine this given the thousands upon thousands of clearly (hindsight) cases.

I dont want to enter into the amount of plasticisers being leached into hot wort arguement (although it is also a worry).

Rather than a parrot, I see myself as a prophet .

To all the nay-sayers...........................................

Just chill

TND

 

[manticle]

Any brewery that is operating on a commercial level, whether macro or micro or nano, still has it in their own interests to chill and pitch as quickly as possible.

Your argument that what commercials do/have done is what we should do doesn't hold water.

Many people have brought science into this debate/discussion. Others have brought their own experience. Some have brought both. You bring neither, despite your science background (microbiology no less).

If you have one shred of evidence that beer has ever hosted a pathogen capable of harming a human in large enough amounts to cause damage then I'd love to know. You're beyond speculating or prohesising - you're just frothing at the mouth about things you should make an effort to learn more about.

Filthy cubes is only relevant in the same way that filthy kettles, fermenters, tubes or whatever else are relevant. We all know that cleanliness is the first step towards sanitary. If you brew with filthy equipment you probably deserve whatever stupid pathogen comes your way. Mostly however filthy cubers will probably just make shit beer. Most literature (all?) confirms that there are no human pathogens that can survive in beer - just a few types of microflora that make it taste bad.

Do you have one incident that you can cite to the contrary? One example of this so called 'beer sickness"?

You may be right mate. If you are, rather than simply repeating the same speculative negativity, time and time again, find some way of measuring it, proving it or at least experientially suggesting it. Until then it's all just hot air. You as an (ex) scientist should know that your hypothesis is worth nothing until you can provide some actual evidence in its favour.

If and when you can, I'll be the first to pull my head in and start chillin' man.

 

[JDW81]

(though I've never been a fan of lentils)

You must not have a decent indian joint near you. A good and spicy lentil curry is one of my staples.

 

[Batz]

You must not have a decent indian joint near you. A good and spicy lentil curry is one of my staples.

We too

 

[alcoadam]

You must not have a decent indian joint near you. A good and spicy lentil curry is one of my staples.

Is the rumour true, indians don't bother with toilet paper?

 

[pk.sax]

Is the rumour true, indians don't bother with toilet paper?

Hahahahha

Only if they have a mug/jug or something full of water closeby.
We got a water jet installed in the old place

PS: definite infatuation with washing with water. Never seen an Indian squirming uncomfortably at the idea of just wiping their hands on napkins before/after a meal? lol. It makes for some hilarious moments with the family.

 

[manticle]

Only if they have ........... something full of water closeby.

So that explains the Ganges.

 

[pk.sax]

So that explains the Ganges.

Poor ganga.
She washes away a bit more than sins I guess!

 

[donburke]

out of interest, how long do you reckon it would take a 10,000 litre no chill cube to chill to an ambient temp of say 20 degrees ?


or perhaps how long it takes for 200,000 litres to cool


i'd say a week maybe more,


so a commercial brewery is gonna wait a week to cool down the beer to start fermenting ?

lets not kid ourselves, they run the whole process in a week, tying up less floorspace and capital in equipment



forget any bacteria, plastic, protein issues, water saving etc

its just not feasible to do on a large scale, thats why its not done commercially

 

[alcoadam]

Hahahahha

Only if they have a mug/jug or something full of water closeby.
We got a water jet installed in the old place

PS: definite infatuation with washing with water. Never seen an Indian squirming uncomfortably at the idea of just wiping their hands on napkins before/after a meal? lol. It makes for some hilarious moments with the family.

Water jet ay?....I spent the last 10 years up in Cairns, you take a bit of water wherever u can get it :lol:

Did quite a bit of brewing up there too without a fermenting fridge, I made some surprisingly shit beer.

 

[manticle]

out of interest, how long do you reckon it would take a 10,000 litre no chill cube to chill to an ambient temp of say 20 degrees ?


or perhaps how long it takes for 200,000 litres to cool


i'd say a week maybe more,


so a commercial brewery is gonna wait a week to cool down the beer to start fermenting ?

lets not kid ourselves, they run the whole process in a week, tying up less floorspace and capital in equipment



forget any bacteria, plastic, protein issues, water saving etc

its just not feasible to do on a large scale, thats why its not done commercially

Not only that but the impact it has on your knees when you are trying to squeeze the air out is an OHS issue.

 

[the_new_darren]

You as an (ex) scientist should know that your hypothesis is worth nothing until you can provide some actual evidence in its favour.

If and when you can, I'll be the first to pull my head in and start chillin' man.

You as a kitchen hand should do a science degree and learn about the null hypothesis??

Did you miss the bit about HBV and HIV? Records show many scientists reporting the null hypothesis but like you...no-one listened.

Result, a massive expansion in HBV and HIV in the heterosexual, non-asian, non-drug using community.

Keep on no-chilling mate....there wont be any problems because it is IMPOSSIBLE.....Yeah?

TND

 

[manticle]

I didn't say it was impossible. I said there is no evidence and you can't provide any. Beer has been around for longer than 80 years mate. I'm not asking for evidence that no chill will lead to botulism bacteria outbreaks so much as asking for evidence that botulism has ever been an issue in brewing ever in its entire history.

Bit more than 80 years. Try several thousand. Got some proof for your assertions? Any evidence whatsoever? Call me whatever you like but you're still full of hot air.

Just finised a masters in cultural materials conservation by the way. Includes chemistry as a major component. Also completed a year of biology at tertiary level a few years back. Bit more than a kitchchenhand's perspective, champ. You have absolutely nothing to support your hypothesis yet you still bang on about it. Either design an experiment around it or shut the **** up.

Bad science and ad hominem. Way to go.

 

[donburke]

hey darren, health risks aside, from a scientific point, how long do you reckon it would take a 10,000 square container full of 100 deg wort (made of stainless steel) to cool to ambient temp of 20 deg ?

say it was 10mm thick to stop it collapsing

any idea ?

You as a kitchen hand should do a science degree and learn about the null hypothesis??

Did you miss the bit about HBV and HIV? Records show many scientists reporting the null hypothesis but like you...no-one listened.

Result, a massive expansion in HBV and HIV in the heterosexual, non-asian, non-drug using community.

Keep on no-chilling mate....there wont be any problems because it is IMPOSSIBLE.....Yeah?

TND

 

[JDW81]

Is the rumour true, indians don't bother with toilet paper?

It's the same in turkey, no TP, just a hose over the squat pan. A bit confronting at first but once you work it out it's all good.

 

[pk.sax]

Did quite a bit of brewing up there too without a fermenting fridge, I made some surprisingly shit beer.

lol.. I got sick of changing ice bottles twice a day and got myself a sweet fermenting fridge Its done a great job so far!