Throw Out Your Cubes

[matho]

I may even add a plate chiller to my purchase list some time this year just so I can sit comfortably on the fence.

Do it manticle it's a good view from up here on the fence :lol:

cheers steve

 

[Maxt]

So, if you are cubing knock off at least 30% of your bittering hops due to that scary science stuff giving good results ...

Scotty

I got flamed years ago for suggesting this effect Scotty. Using a hop like Galaxy as a late addition is out of control unless you use a figure like yours. Thanks for the (commercial and scientific) info.

 

[lickapop]

I don't know about everyone else but when I beak in a new cube it involves deep soaks with hotwater and PBW to remove the VOCs

You wont rid it with deep soaks and PBW. VOC's will out last your cubes.
Its neither here nor there for most but VOC's have f#$ked me over enough to make me cautious.

 

[the_new_darren]

Still begs the question as to why brewers have been rapidly cooling their beer for centuries?

Why didn't they just let their beer cool slowly in the "kettle" and then pitch?

Why did the use of "coolships" become widely utilised WITH the obvious contamination risks involved?

I suspect that there was, at sometime in history, a link between slowly cooled (oxygenless) wort and "beer sickness".

Whether it was the dreaded CB or not, certainly No-chill provides the ideal conditions.

I reckon it will happen again (eventually) when someone happens to "optimise" the conditions (simmering boil and filthy cube). Lets just hope that the beer isn't served up at a party of unsuspecting guests!!

Flame suit on.

TND

 

[manticle]

If you're talking commercial breweries then no chill is a completely impractical and commercially unviable option.

This is a different scale entirely. On an HB scale no chill has been proven to work for many.

Your suspicions aren't based either on experience nor experiments in brewing science and haven't been borne out in reality thus far. Why you continually repeat them is beyond me. dr K spoke about parrots - you are one. Botulism is not an issue with no chill.

I'm not sure what filthy cubes have to do with anything. Anyone but the stupidest NC person will start with clean equipment, including their cube. For my money, the cube should be sanitised as well.

 

[black_labb]

Edit: replied to lickapop re VOC's. TND should use his rectum as a "filthy cube". might not make great beer but could help allow him to empty his bowels instead of spewing out so much of his shit online. Talk about "volatile organic compounds".

I'm not an expert or anything but you don't seem to be either, but are being cautious because you don't have the knowledge to satisfy to yourself that it is safe. I probably don't have the knowledge either but I'll explain some of my thoughts

VOC's are a danger to breathe in. Inhaling them is much more dangerous than ingesting them as the body doesn't really absorb gasses through the stomach.

Any VOC's are likely to be pushed out of the cube when you squeeze the air out if they are there at all. Gasses are very insoluble at high temperatures. Past that situation having the wort in there is no different from fermenting in a fermentor of that material. I'd suggest that if any was dissolved into the wort from being in the cube it would be driven off in fermentation.


I'd suggest that a beer made from no chilling is going to be many times healthier to be drinking than any of the megaswill in terms of chemicals.


I'm pretty sure the health risks involved in no chilling wort has been debated before. have you tried searching and having a read of it?

 

[stux]

Whether or not cubes have VOCs, and if you can drive it off.

A new cube does have a plastic smell/taste. And you can rectify that with hot soaks/flushes. And then it won't.

 

[Rina]

So, if you are cubing knock off at least 30% of your bittering hops due to that scary science stuff giving good results ...

Scotty

Damn

 

[lickapop]

I dont have anything to back my statements up but from years of working with plastics, vinyl and epoxy. VOC's are there for the life of the product and are amplified by adding heat and chemical, ah la PBW/ sodium hydroxide etc.

Take an 'old' cube and sit it out in sun for a couple of hours and take a whiff.

IMO cubes are stable at room temp water. Thats what they are designed for. Its safe for human consumption. Start adding heat which they are not designed for and you will release more VOC's than what the manufacturer had intended its use for. From what I can gather anyway.

 

[yardy]

mash started @ 8.30, 23lt of schwarz Chilled and on the yeast by 1.30, gotta admit it's nice to have the brewday over and done with and be Chillaxing with a pint B)

 

[manticle]

@///:If you are cubing and going by a recipe that was designed around chilling, maybe. If you are using a recipe designed for an NC system- no.

Also if you are making a single bittering addition beer, you won't get anything like 30% extra aa. It's late hopping that's the issue.

If I'm incorrect, I'm happy to be corrected - your results were measured Scotty but my understanding is that a 90 minute boil won't extract a whole lot more aa than a 60 min - certainly not 30% more. NC wouldn't be too different.

For late hopping, I know from my own palate that NC does indeed make a difference and I could believe 15-30% quite easily.

 

[alcoadam]

As pre-filled cubes are now being sold in shops nation wide it leads me to believe that if there were any health concerns, even the authorities are unaware. People that say otherwise can only be using guesswork.....but, if it floats your boat! Companies do also re-use these containers.


I do notice the smell of a plastic container, I also can notice a faint odour with metals. If I was to put my tounge on certain metals, I will notice a taste as well...but at this stage I'm not panicking.


We expose our skin (which does absorb) to chemicals everyday from the moment we hit the shower. No one really knows (yet) what is to come from all this exposure though if the cube was of a concern to me, there would also be a long list of other things.

 

[sim]

Its all gonna have alot to do with your approach: why you're making beer, how you like to do things in general.

On from your point alcoadam, the fact that NC drums are sold doesnt mean they're safe, whether the authorities know or not. People have been poisoning themselves since the dawn of time, and sometimes quite enjoyably.

Of late i have been moving away from plastics in all instances where i can, and as a consumer try and only use materials which are reusable and recycleable, so not just for a health/food saftey reasons. This means everything in my brewery is relativley inert - silicone, stainless and glass. Costs a bit more, and lasts alot longer. I like it that way, thats my approach.

 

[lickapop]

Well after 20 years of working with certain plastic products with nil problems, over night my system rejected them and I will be hospitalised if I come in contact with them now.

I wouldn't blink an eyelid if I knew the beer I was drinking was cubed but I personally would not do it every brew for years on end.

 

[alcoadam]

Its all gonna have alot to do with your approach: why you're making beer, how you like to do things in general.

On from your point alcoadam, the fact that NC drums are sold doesnt mean they're safe, whether the authorities know or not. People have been poisoning themselves since the dawn of time, and sometimes quite enjoably.

Of late i have been moving away from plastics in all instances where i can, and as a consumer try and only use materials which are reusable and recycleable, not just for a health/food saftey reasons. This means everything in my brewery is relativley inert - silicone, stainless and glass. Costs a bit more, and lasts alot longer. I like it that way, thats my approach.

I agree they may not be safe and authorities could be dragging their feet but the point I'm making is that if this area is of concern, you should really be concerned about many other things, such as chemicals contained within your shampoo/deoderant, your coffee that may come in a plastic cup, the plastic holding your microwave dinner or your chinese take-away, your poor quality stainless cutlery that runs over your tounge 10's thounds times and have you heard of what goes into chewing gum!? You probably get my drift.

We're all probably doomed, but if I was to think about it too much i'd probably turn hippy.


(though I've never been a fan of lentils)

 

[sim]

We're all probably doomed, but if I was to think about it too much i'd probably turn hippy.

Yeah dont do that... The lack of chemicals in your healthy new diet makes you grow hair real quick, and the heightened consiousness makes it difficult to get boozed, and your thoughtfullness and careing comments will have you bannished to sitting with the christians at partys, and even if your various "causes" comes good and the world prospers it'll just get old and boring anyway etc etc

...just sayin.

 

[alcoadam]

Yeah dont do that... The lack of chemicals in your healthy new diet makes you grow hair real quick, and the heightened consiousness makes it difficult to get boozed, and your thoughtfullness and careing comments will have you bannished to sitting with the christians at partys, and even if your various "causes" comes good and the world prospers it'll just get old and boring anyway etc etc

...just sayin.

Also heard the world is ending later this year so I'll just continue on....I also like my "chemical glow" complection at night.

 

[manticle]

Is that so you can fit right in at bush doof trance parties?

 

[alcoadam]

Is that so you can fit right in at bush doof trance parties?

My chemical laced beers are always popular....

 

[manticle]

Natural high man, natural high.














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