Throw Out Your Cubes

[dr K]

Those who know me also know that when it comes to No-Chill I am at best not an advocate.
I have never, and probably never will, disparage the "Fresh Wort Kits" that are available from many suppliers, they are streets ahead of standard kit brews but in the end thats what they are.
I pose the question...what makes no chill fly?
## It causes no more reported cases of botulism that conventional chilling.
## It allows you to brew over two days rather than one
## It saves the cost of a chiller
## You can't tell the difference (purely subjective and should be not be here but passes due to sarcasm)
## It saves water
## Late hopping is difficult as the alpha acids continue to isomorise in the cube
## Aroma hopping presents even greater problems than late hopping.
## DMS forms
## It adds another path to infection
## It takes more work, more time, more water and more chemicals to clean a cube than an immersion chiller.

A small investment (not more than the cost of a couple of cubes) will produce (subjectively) better beer, certainly reduce the formation of DMS, increase late hop aroma (if thats what you want), get your IBU's closer to the recipe you follow and allow you to use your waste water on your garden (which means I guess it's not waste!).
The current issue of Zymurgy (The Journal of the American Home Brewers Association) has a Geek article about wort chilling which you check out if you are a member.
Nine (9) meters of 12.7mm OD copper coils will set you back about $45.
The graphs and my experience show that you can cool 5 USGal (18ish litres) of boiling wort to 27C with this 9 meters (re-coiled to fit your kettle ) in about 18 minuteds and about half that if you whirlpool, or even just move the wort around constantly.
I whirlpool with a pump and here is what it looks like Break and Trub

Your wort is now ready to pitch, no more waiting till the next day, no more cleaning the cube as well as the fermentor, your $45 immersion chiller is hosed off at the same time as your kettle, life is good and as you savour the fresh hop aroma of your Yes-Chill beer you wonder how to re-use those cubes and thank your personal diety that you are not a sheep.!!

K

 

[///]

I just burnt the wifes Bra, can I be a member of this club?

 

[daemon]

Not sure about everyone else, but I no-chill because I can have beer ready to ferment when I need it, not when I get time to brew. I can build up my own FWK's if I get a day or weekend spare but don't have to wait until I have a fermenter and/or keg spare.

It's not about cost, it's all about convenience. I've made IPA's using no-chill and I've made beers with hops over 16% AA without problems. Plenty of flavour and aroma if done right, like any good brewer I know how I need to compensate a recipe to suit my system.

 

[RdeVjun]

Zymurgy you say? Say, what's the stock code for the parent?
Oh dear, that call to my stockbroker will have to wait as I've all of sudden come down with botulism... oh my, I will have to reschedule pitching day as well, how inconvenient.

 

[Fat Bastard]

I just burnt the wifes Bra, can I be a member of this club?

Only if she was still wearing it.

I looked into No-Chill when I was investigating AG 6 months or so ago, and when I weighed it all up, I forked out $130 for the plate chiller. I think it's one of those things that on the surface of it seems easier, but in fact complicates things due to the reasons in the OP.

For $130, I didn't even think it was worth stuffing around making an immersion or counterflow chiller, and I like stuffing around so much I made my own electric kettle and temperature controller.

 

[dr K]

I just burnt the wifes Bra, can I be a member of this club?

You have to burn your undies first
With a blow torch..in situ !!!

K

 

[Yob]

ive read of just as many people with chillers getting infected as cubers, im currently a nc atm as it just suits my proccess and equipment and where im at.. will that change? more than likely as i love the builds and im getting ino pumps now too..

mmmmm 4v hx

horses 4 courses yeah?? is there that big a difference?

 

[dr K]

ive read of just as many people with chillers getting infected as cubers, im currently a nc atm as it just suits my proccess and equipment and where im at.. will that change? more than likely as i love the builds and im getting ino pumps now too..

mmmmm 4v hx

horses 4 courses yeah?? is there that big a difference?

Did I say that that NC would cause infections?
Did I say that YC would not cause infections?

OP

 

[under]

I just chuck the cubes in the pool. Cooled in about 45mins to pitch temp.

 

[bigandhairy]

Not sure about everyone else, but I no-chill because I can have beer ready to ferment when I need it, not when I get time to brew. I can build up my own FWK's if I get a day or weekend spare but don't have to wait until I have a fermenter and/or keg spare.

It's not about cost, it's all about convenience. I've made IPA's using no-chill and I've made beers with hops over 16% AA without problems. Plenty of flavour and aroma if done right, like any good brewer I know how I need to compensate a recipe to suit my system.

I'm exactly the same as you daemon, almost word for word. I will get a plate chiller soon and will use it when a fermenter is spare (on those rare occasions, that is). However the majority of my brews will continue to be no chill for the very reasons daemon states above.

bah

 

[Cocko]

I no chill because its Rad.

Thus my beer is Rad.

Making me way Rad.

 

[benno1973]

I use a counterflow chiller, however I can definitely see the advantages of NC for pitching at a later date, when you've got time to clean and sanitise your fermenter.

That aside, I also don't get the chill speeds that you do Dr K. I have an immersion chiller - while I didn't make it, I estimate the length to be around 9m. It takes a lot longer to chill 20L down to 27C. I whirlpool, not continuously, but at stages during the chill, and it takes closer to 35-40 minutes. Maybe I need to ramp the flow up through the chiller? Sounds like I'm not doing something right.

 

[Muscovy_333]

I'm no-chill but not for much longer.
No amount of compensation is knocking of those darn DMS precursors! Not even a mega boil.

The only reason i'm no-chilling is because i'm working my way down my ghetto build list and guess whats next on the build...

Off TOPIC>>>>For the record I have my first keg carbing on my ghetto $20 fire extinguisher (which was full!) as we speak. Its a monumental man cave moment for me.
Congratulations self.

 

[IainMcLean]

I have a cube with an immersion chiller in it and pinstriping on the outside.
It's way rad.
It has blue LEDs underneath it too...

My beer doesn't give me botulism - the kebabs I keep ordering after drinking my beer do....

 

[Ian Gommers]

Come on fellas, there is no such thing as "No chill". We all chill, it's just the time frame that differs. I think we should all be either "Fast Chillers" or "Slow Chillers". Me, I'm a "Fast Chiller"!

 

[pk.sax]

This thread is chilling me!

 

[Kai]

Those who know me also know that when it comes to No-Chill I am at best not an advocate.
I have never, and probably never will, disparage the "Fresh Wort Kits" that are available from many suppliers, they are streets ahead of standard kit brews but in the end thats what they are.
I pose the question...what makes no chill fly?
## It causes no more reported cases of botulism that conventional chilling.
## It allows you to brew over two days rather than one
## It saves the cost of a chiller
## You can't tell the difference (purely subjective and should be not be here but passes due to sarcasm)
## It saves water
## Late hopping is difficult as the alpha acids continue to isomorise in the cube
## Aroma hopping presents even greater problems than late hopping.
## DMS forms
## It adds another path to infection
## It takes more work, more time, more water and more chemicals to clean a cube than an immersion chiller.

I'll bite, just because it's been a good few years since I've participated in one of these discussions. That and the whole 'no-chill' movement here is partially my fault.

## Yes it takes a day longer to commence fermentation, but the luxury of brewing at home is I'm not on a tight production schedule I find it harder to keep the cold side on a good time schedule (I'll rack that tomorrow... I'll bottle that next week... etc.)
## Telling the difference, yes subjective but the difference between two different home breweries I would argue is far greater. Perhaps better expressed as "the difference is negligible when all other factors are taken into consideration", and does remain a relevant point albeit indeed subjective and prone to differences in methodolgy.
## It does save water, especially compared to an inefficient chiller using warm ambient temperature water. And I have seen plenty of that variety of chiller.
## I find late hopping with no chill very easy, though I also find all homebrewing software wildly inaccurate for calculating IBUs when used 'out of the box'.
## I find aroma hopping very easy too, with quite satisfying results.
## Never had DMS problems. Rarely brew pale lagers though, but I have done plenty of excellent pale beers. And I'm definitely not immune to DMS detection.
## An immersion chiller adds another path to infection too, albeit not directly but through contamination from the outside environment as the kettle cools and draws in air.
## It categorically does not take me more time or more water to clean a cube than it would to chill a batch of beer with a conventional heat exchanger. More work can be argued, but that work occurs during the 'downtime' of a brewday. Ask me if I care about actual water usage though...

I'll also add that I am in no way advocating here. If I had my druthers I'd have a good-sized plate HX and a pump to keep it reliably clean. I'd also like it if I actually had time to brew real beer at home, but that's another story.

 

[bum]

Hey, you. Yes, YOU!

Your methods offend me. I care not that you find them suitable to your requirements. Do my bidding!

If you want.

 

[dr K]

I use a counterflow chiller, however I can definitely see the advantages of NC for pitching at a later date, when you've got time to clean and sanitise your fermenter.

That aside, I also don't get the chill speeds that you do Dr K. I have an immersion chiller - while I didn't make it, I estimate the length to be around 9m. It takes a lot longer to chill 20L down to 27C. I whirlpool, not continuously, but at stages during the chill, and it takes closer to 35-40 minutes. Maybe I need to ramp the flow up through the chiller? Sounds like I'm not doing something right.

Kaiser..at last..a sensible reply !
The figures I used were from (or extrapolated from) the current Zymurgy not from my personal figures, though they seem fine to me..my current set up, 2 x pumps in parallel recirculating whirlpool immersion chiller gets my 50l from just sub boil to sub 35C in about 8 minutes in January in Canberra, after that the temp drop is not so good, none the less I fit inside the square.
Ramping the flow up..yes...read the article

K

 

[Thefatdoghead]

All my fermentors and kegs are full what am I gonna do?? NC! Who really gives a flying **** whether you do or don't no chill? oh yeah the person that started this thread.....anyway sometimes I do when it suits and sometimes I don't. Whatever
:icon_cheers: