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S-189 lager yeasts at Ale temps

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seemax

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Yeah .... that's why its called S189 .. it's short for Saf @ 18-19C.
 

daemon

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Craftbrewer ferment their lagers at 19C.
I believe they use S-189 for the lagers, which at 19c is actually still quite clean. Sure it's not perfect, but for anyone wanting a XXXX / Corona / standard Euro Lager probably won't pick the difference. The megaswill breweries get away with using Lager yeast at similar temps with loads of sugar, iso hops and a week of "Lagering" so I'd still go for Ross's Lagers any day :)

I can understand that smaller breweries / brew-4-u type establishments need a single ferment temp as I'm sure it already costs enough to run two cold rooms. Anyone fussy enough to pick the difference would probably do it all themselves at home anyway.

As for the 27c, it sounds like he was meant to say 17c. I've seen a few Brew 4 u / Brew by U type establishments and most use one room at ~18c and then the 2nd @ ~2c to cold condition.
 

Nick JD

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I believe they use S-189 for the lagers, which at 19c is actually still quite clean.
I tried it once. "Quite clean" is not the description I'd use.
 

Clutch

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I've done a lager with both the S-189 and S-23, at the same temps.

I'll take the S-23 any day of the week.
 

Nick JD

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and I believe the previous owners of the said brewery used to brew a few points higher........... :ph34r:
Mmmmmm, lagers with esters. Stylish! :huh:

19C with S189 is not a lager. It's a bowl of fruit.
 

Tony

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Oh come on Ross...... where is the advert coment?

:p :icon_cheers:
 

argon

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Mmmmmm, lagers with esters. Stylish! :huh:

19C with S189 is not a lager. It's a bowl of fruit.
The thing about Craftbrewer and fermenting S189 @ 19C is that 19C is the temp the cold room is set at.... That is measuring the air. The fermenters are kept on a concrete floor and it's almost certain that the fabric of the room would be at least 4 to 5C cooler. So with a bottom fermenting yeast as S189 is the fermentation is probably more like 14C. Which is closer to a more traditional brewing temp. So 19C at Ross' is probably very different to 19C in my fridge.
 

Nick JD

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The thing about Craftbrewer and fermenting S189 @ 19C is that 19C is the temp the cold room is set at.... That is measuring the air. The fermenters are kept on a concrete floor and it's almost certain that the fabric of the room would be at least 4 to 5C cooler. So with a bottom fermenting yeast as S189 is the fermentation is probably more like 14C. Which is closer to a more traditional brewing temp. So 19C at Ross' is probably very different to 19C in my fridge.
Heh heh. Rubbish. It'd be like 23C if it's 19C ambient.

They shouldn't do it but they do. There's knowing where you can break the rules and then there's being restricted by having only one fermentation area for ales and lagers.

Recognising the difference is a customer's perogative when the retailers spout shit to suit their sales. S189 at 19C+ is fruity.

I'm getting a bit tired with the crap that the retailers post on AHB. Two sets of rules: theirs to break, and homebrewers to not.
 

Ross

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Our Boh Pils FWK took out 1st place in the Queensland championships last year brewed at 19c.
S-189 makes great lagers at 19c, we make them virtually every day, & countless customers (many great brewers), have tasted & agree...

But Nick brewed with it once & got a fruit salad, so he must be right....

Nothing more to add B)

Cheers Ross
 

Nick JD

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Our Boh Pils FWK took out 1st place in the Queensland championships last year brewed at 19c.
S-189 makes great lagers at 19c, we make them virtually every day, & countless customers (many great brewers), have tasted & agree...

But Nick brewed with it once & got a fruit salad, so he must be right....

Nothing more to add B)

Cheers Ross
I brew with it all the time. Not at 19C though - it's a fucking lager yeast.

Who else entered? S189 in a Boh Pils at 19C?

Oh dear. Can I suggest you use a Bohemian Pilsner yeast at a clean temperature? Or would that not work at 19C?!!!

This makes me lose faith in your competitions...

Which commerical Boh Pils brewers use S189 at 19C?

More honesty would be appreciated, Ross.

Rigged for sure. Was the Boh Pils decocted? I'm starting to think that the competition at these comps is pretty fucking average.

Post the recipe. I'd like to brew it myself at 19C and see if it's a winner...

Actually - wasn't this the comp you guys carpet bombed? For retail kudos.

I'm glad you have nothing more to add.
 

argon

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Heh heh. Rubbish. It'd be like 23C if it's 19C ambient.
Actually no, not rubbish... sciencey stuff suggests there is a thing called thermal lag. Objects of greater density will lag behind temperature changes of those of lesser density. Hence the fabric of the enclosure will be cooler than that of it's contents.

I'm starting to think that the competition at these comps is pretty fucking average.
Put one in an you'll find out. Especially so, that i brew rubbish bo pils.


Rigged for sure. Was the Boh Pils decocted?
Not sure what you mean here... but... the 2010 AABC Beer of Show was a Bo Pils from QLD done as an isothermal mash... no decoction
 

Nick JD

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Put one in an you'll find out. Especially so, that i brew rubbish bo pils.
I'd like to see the recipe of this Boh Pils with S189 at 19C that won a competition. Ross - post it here so I can brew it. Was it a decoction mash?

Makes me think the competition is pretty fucking average.

Makes me think that a WY2001 @ 10C triple decoction Wey Boh Pils might be a shoe in.

Seriously? S189 at 19C?

What about US05 at 29C? :rolleyes:
 

Nick JD

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Actually no, not rubbish... sciencey stuff suggests there is a thing called thermal lag. Objects of greater density will lag behind temperature changes of those of lesser density. Hence the fabric of the enclosure will be cooler than that of it's contents.
Pfffft. Put a keg in a fridge and it'll be the same temperature as everything in the fridge - fool.

You guys are idiots. Out.
 

matho

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I have been led to believe that yeast produce most of the esters during the growth phase, so if you pitched a large enough yeast count to limit yeast growth then wouldn't the ester production also be reduced.

One of the translations for the word LAGER is storeroom, I do believe that Bacchus Brewing Co. has a cold storeroom at 0 deg c and they do put their lagers in the storeroom for about 10 days, so they have been lagered.

cheers
 

Tony

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I will add that i tried a Schwarzbier made by a HBS owner close to my area last year, and im fairly sure he said he used S-189 at 17 or 19 deg or something like that.
I recal being amazed how clean it was!

I might even give this a go myself....... would certanly save power on 4 week fridge fest brewing at low temps.
 

bum

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One of the translations for the word LAGER is storeroom, I do believe that Bacchus Brewing Co. has a cold storeroom at 0 deg c and they do put their lagers in the storeroom for about 10 days, so they have been lagered.
This is kinda unnecessarily picky. Nick's point is clearly related to lager yeast and not about the semantics of the word.

Having said that, many people are saying the beer in question is good so I have no doubt that it is. It is just that your point is misleading. Of course, Nick is usually deliberately and frequently far more misleading so I don't wish for this to be seen as a defence of him - more an effort to point out to people who may not understand that simply CCing their brews doesn't mean they can always get away with hot ferments with all lager yeasts.
 
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