S-189 lager yeasts at Ale temps

[MarkBastard]

This is the same for a lot of us. And if there's a lager yeast that can get good results at those temps, then why not promote it?

Exactly. If it's true (I believe it is as I've sampled their lagers), then it's really handy information for home brewers. You can get away with higher temps, less fermenting and lagering time, and less yeast! Some people will like that and it may make them more likely to actually make lagers.

 

[Nick JD]

This thread is hilarious because it's a total role reversal.

Nick JD, the pioneer of breaking rules and doing whatever to make beer easily is getting his back up about not fermenting yeast at an ideal temperature.

I normally tend to take Nick JD's side because he puts theory and bullshit aside and talks about his own experiences and how they work for him, however this time I can not. Nick it sounds like you brewed a batch and got fruity esters and now you're the authority? And the commercial brewer and competitive judges must be wrong. That just doesn't hold up.

My experience:

I used a whole rehydrated pack of S189 and pitched it onto 18L of a 1.045 Wey Pils (touch of Melanoidin) with 30 IBUS of Saaz and Tett at 19C and there were an undesirable amount of esters in a beer that should have had none. No amount of conditioning fixed it. In my own experience S189 shouldn't be fermented at a 19C ambient - but I did it before I knew Ross's setup meant he HAD to, and if he could ferment his lagers at lager fermenting temps, he would.

I have fermented over 30 batches with S189. Between 12C and 14C I find it is much less fruity.

Anyway, I've since sent an emal to Pilsner Urquell telling them they're doing it wrong. S189 @19C FTW!

 

[MarkBastard]

If someone followed your brewing instructions, left their pot on their garage floor overnight, and got an infection that made their beer taste like pine'o'clean and called you an idiot what would you think?

Make sure you tell PU that they're doing it wrong with their mashing techniques as well! They could do it for just $30!

 

[Nick JD]

If someone followed your brewing instructions, left their pot on their garage floor overnight, and got an infection that made their beer taste like pine'o'clean and called you an idiot what would you think?

I'd tell them I won a competition using the same method.

 

[HoppingMad]

Really gobsmacked by some of the comments on this thread on S-189.

S-189 at 19 degrees? Wow - I've never taken it beyond 12-14 myself. Don't the specs say keep it 9-15 degrees? Pretty wild idea.

I guess if you're shooting for something with a California Lager style ester in it then doing your batch this high would create one in that zone?

Personally I love the W34/70 fermented low myself. Nice and clean, but does come up dusty initially until you cellar a bit.
But when you get it right the beer just disappears - it's that good.

Hopper.

 

[Nick JD]

I guess if you're shooting for something with a California Lager style ester in it then doing your batch this high would create one in that zone?

I guess the best way to find this out would be to buy the same Boh Pils FWK and pitch at the same rate as they do with S189 at 19C. Then lager for the same time at the same temp.

Then enter it in a comp and see how it places.

Would be a great experiement for a number of reasons...

 

[NickB]

I'm game if you are. We could not only have a battle of the Beers, but a Battle of the Nicks! Shall we say, aim for the QABC this year? Should be in September sometime. Shall we say, minimum 3 Months Lagering? That means into keg/bottle by June 1st 2012, then onto the comp 3 months later... I'm happy to make that a 'last date' type arrangement. You nominate yeast, and I'll go the s-189... Ferment temp for mine will be 19C and yours can be the same if you want a fair comp, or whatever the manufacturer recommends.

The one and only prerequisite of this comp is that we meet up at some point to try Ross' beer before hand. Many other samples are at our discretion.....


So....Deal Nick #2?

EDIT: Obviously, being FWKs we would not be eligible for prizes, but I think as a 'feedback Only' experiment, very much worth it!

 

[Pennywise]

I've brewed with s-189 at 19c and the beer was as far from fruity as an RIS is from being straw colored. Was it perfectly flawless? No, it did have a barely noticeable diacetyl issue (I don't like diacetyl so for me it's an issue). It wasn't with a fwk though

 

[Nick JD]

I'm game if you are. We could not only have a battle of the Beers, but a Battle of the Nicks! Shall we say, aim for the QABC this year? Should be in September sometime. Shall we say, minimum 3 Months Lagering? That means into keg/bottle by June 1st 2012, then onto the comp 3 months later... I'm happy to make that a 'last date' type arrangement. You nominate yeast, and I'll go the s-189... Ferment temp for mine will be 19C and yours can be the same if you want a fair comp, or whatever the manufacturer recommends.

The one and only prerequisite of this comp is that we meet up at some point to try Ross' beer before hand. Many other samples are at our discretion.....


So....Deal Nick #2?

EDIT: Obviously, being FWKs we would not be eligible for prizes, but I think as a 'feedback Only' experiment, very much worth it!

I'll be entering a FWK fermented the same way Ross does it to see where it places and what score it gets. Wouldn't be much of a comp if we both do it.

Wait a mo - I just read again - FWKs aren't contestable? WTF?

 

[NickB]

Not sure actually, will have to read up on the rules. I know that Ross' entries last year started an almighty debate. I'm probably wrong in that FWKs aren't allowed, but would need to clarify. If you want, I'm happy use the same recipe as Ross provided and brew my own to compete.... Is that a fair comp mate? If not, let's just grab a beer at some stage and argue like bastards

Cheers

 

[bradsbrew]

I'd be keen for a "lager off comp". Each person brews the same recipe, has to start ferment at the same gravity and have to use a lager yeast. ferment at your desired temp and condition for set amount of time. Judged by brewers and external judges at a set date.



Cheers

 

[NickB]

I'd be in that for sure Brad. Let's tee it up. I'd assume we're all in favour of Florian NOT competing though. We'd like to have a chance

 

[Dazza88]

The s189 at 19C thing . . . .

When Ross says 19C in a cool room could you assume that in the middle of their fermenters maintain 19C during fermentation whilst 19C in a fridge may not maintain 19C in the middle of the ferementer?

When i used s189 last year i think i always did it at 16C max because i assumed my reading on the side of the fermenter would be lower than in the middle, and thought that 16C gave some leeway.

The lager off sounds good, as well someone doing some controlled ferments with s189; 5 brews all the same but fermented at different temps.

 

[Tony]

Wait a mo - I just read again - FWKs aren't contestable? WTF?

:lol:

tripple decoction it is!

 

[Nick JD]

:lol:

tripple decoction it is!

I've set myself a mission to get more than 10EBC from Wey Boh Pils ... and last week I burnt a mashout decoction. Fried the fecker

Still - back on the horse!

 

[Tony]

I doubt the pils mate we get is the same as what they use to make pilsner urquell.

They would be getting it contract malted to a certain specification to make the beer they want. most big breweries do it.

If they are getting it kilned differently to add the colour without having to fry decoction pots in their garage...... id say your out of luck getting a similar result using tripple decoctions. It will help but wont make it the same.

They also use 3 different yeasts and blend the final result..... the wyeast one you buy is but one strain afaik.

I wonder if one of them is S-189 at 19 deg?

 

[Nick JD]

I wonder if one of them is S-189 at 19 deg?

Not by the sounds of it...

So is this all crap?

http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backi....3/urquell.html

 

[Tony]

is that the old brewery or the new one?

 

[Fish13]

I doubt the pils mate we get is the same as what they use to make pilsner urquell.

They would be getting it contract malted to a certain specification to make the beer they want. most big breweries do it.

If they are getting it kilned differently to add the colour without having to fry decoction pots in their garage...... id say your out of luck getting a similar result using tripple decoctions. It will help but wont make it the same.

They also use 3 different yeasts and blend the final result..... the wyeast one you buy is but one strain afaik.

I wonder if one of them is S-189 at 19 deg?

i belive PU still malt there own grains...

 

[DJR]

They also use 3 different yeasts and blend the final result..... the wyeast one you buy is but one strain afaik.

OK, off topic now, if they do ( i thought they used one, where is Gerard when you need him) then it's the H- strain, the D- strain and something else.

From what i can tell, 2001 is the H- strain which is also used by Gambrinus in the same complex. D- is 2278.

That article was from '97, so it'd be the old one. They have another brewery over in Poland I believe but we still get the stuff from Plzen

On topic, I have tried 2x packs of S-189 in a brew at about 18-20C, I didn't really like the result. It was a basic Pilsener I was trying to do, and it wasn't quite clean enough. But I didn't lager/CC it, which probably would have made a fair difference to the result.