Protein Rest - What Is It And Is It Handy?

[hsb]

Thanks. Think I will give it a go. I can just transfer from HLT, stir until I hit temp then back into HLT. Sounds good, should help cut my brewday as well. Had thought it was a No No but you've given me the confidence to get stuck in. Ta.

 

[manticle]

Exactly what I do (HLT to tun and back). Even doing single infusion it can be handy to adjust temp if you don't hit it exactly where you want it.

 

[hsb]

Sounds like a winner. :icon_cheers:

Apologies for going slightly OT, here's the last Protein Rest post to pull things back on topic...

I did a weizen on the weekend and did the step mash of:
44 for 15
51 for 15
64 for 40
70 for 20
or so i thought, until the gas ran out on the protein rest (51), and it sat at the protein rest state for around 30 minutes...will an extended protein rest develop any flavours? or anything to expect in the finished beer?
cheers

 

[manticle]

I should clarify - I have read about people concerned with scorching the mash. I myself have not noticed it happening in my mash. I also step mash using the all the different tricks so starting with smaller water volume and using hot water to lift mash temp from 55 protein to first sacch temp. If wanting to raise temp again either for high sacch rest or mash-out, I will usually decoct and mash out will be hot water. Immersion heater is used to hit or tweak exact temps or for small lifts (such as low sacc rest to high).

I'm sure you could scorch the mash if you weren't careful or were trying to do do much heating with the immersion heater so see what works best for you.

Just good to be aware of possibilities and potential downfalls of methods - but don't stress about them. Using an immersion heater in your mash doesn't immediately start scorching grains and maybe it will give you some of the melanoiden character you get from decoctions.

@Lespaul - I'd be interested to hear how it goes as I've read that too long in low 50s with modern malts can effect head retention. be good to hear someone's actual experience. My protein rests are always mid 50s and my regime is modelled on the oft mentioned Zwickel step regime.

 

[MHB]

Mostly couldn't be bothered and suspect it's unnecessary with the malts available today. Did a Belgian Wheat yesterday, ~35% Unmalted Wheat and 10% Oat Malt so I mashed in at 40^oC, for 10 minutes then went to 50^oC for another 10 then up to Scarifying temperatures.

So neither good nor bad, just something you do when your choice of grain makes it necessary.

MHB

 

[Bribie G]

I asked Herr Weyermann (in Question Time after his Wellington "Cryer Malts" presentation) about malts such as their Pilseners and Bohemians and whether they needed any special treatment and the info was that they are very well modified and you can just go ahead and use them in isothermal mashes etc, also with adjuncts up to around 30%. He said that whilst they love home brewers and go out of their way to support them, at the end of the day their malts overwhelmingly go to commercial Euro breweries - that's what got me interested in the Hochkurz Mash - works fine for them without a protein rest.

 

[raven19]

Yes I do and no I haven't noticed any unpleasant effects. Just make sure it's sturdy, you stir it around evenly (as mash temp in my tun often has hot spots and cool spots anyway), unplug it before removing and if you have a plastic tun, keep it away from the sides (obvious but worth mentioning).

I, on the flip side, have not had success with immersion elements in my MT. Grains got stuck between the rings of the element, and lets just say the beer became affectionaly known as a roasted/smoked weizen. :icon_vomit:

I added a few kg's of strawberries to half of it.

I drank it all, it was my second AG.

 

[lespaul]

Mostly couldn't be bothered and suspect it's unnecessary with the malts available today.

This seems to be the recurring theme, that modern malts mean that the gain from the step mash really isnt as beneficial as it was decades ago.

also I wasnt sure about the growth of lactoacillus from the extended time i had it at the protein rest, i dont know much about it at all but i think it might be from time at a lower temperature?

 

[felten]

More like overnight though, not 30 minutes, you will be fine.

 

[manticle]

I, on the flip side, have not had success with immersion elements in my MT. Grains got stuck between the rings of the element, and lets just say the beer became affectionaly known as a roasted/smoked weizen. :icon_vomit:

I added a few kg's of strawberries to half of it.

I drank it all, it was my second AG.

Was yours mounted in there?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

There's a difference between not "needing" to do a step or decoction mash - and it being bad or ineffectual if you do one.

My beers are different when I don't do a protein rest. They have a different body and mouthfeel, and they have different foam characteristics. In general, I like them better when I do the P rest.

I am however NOT doing a traditional protein rest for a longer period at around 50 - that's what you do if you have under modified malt, to smash up the left over protein matrix and allow you to access the starch. I'm doing short 5 min rest at 55 to convert a portion of the longer proteins in the mash to medium length proteins. In less modified malts... you'd get this portion as a co-result of the action that breaks the matrix proteins... In well modified malts, you need a "modified" P rest schedule to get that bit, while missing out on most of the now unnecessary bits of protein degradation associated with a traditional P rest.

Well... That's the way I explain what seems to happen in my beer anyway.

PS - those immersion elements are bendable (in a minimal fashion) You can spread the coil out a little bit so grain can't get stuck in there, and it makes them easier to clean too.

 

[Nick JD]

I remember reading somewhere that protein rests can be bad for beer if the malt is well-modified.

 

[lespaul]

I remember reading somewhere that protein rests can be bad for beer if the malt is well-modified.

In relation to the extended protein rest that i had, i dont mind if its bad, just if i can tell what to look for that makes it bad.

 

[marksfish]

as far as i remember after 15 minutes of a protien rest with well modified malts the protiens are smashed into amino acids which ruins head formation and retention.

 

[TidalPete]

I, on the flip side, have not had success with immersion elements in my MT. Grains got stuck between the rings of the element, and lets just say the beer became affectionaly known as a roasted/smoked weizen. :icon_vomit:

I added a few kg's of strawberries to half of it.

I drank it all, it was my second AG.

Raven,
Had the same hassle when I used my immersion with my old gravity 3-vessel setup. Solved the problem by putting the immersion in the vice & carefully stretching out the coils to allow the grains to slip through & just to keep on-topic I give all my beers other than Wheaties a 10 minute Protein Rest (Use the Zwickel method for Wheaties & Wits) with no obvious problems. Not saying this is the way to go but it works for me.

TP

 

[manticle]

I remember reading somewhere that protein rests can be bad for beer if the malt is well-modified.

possibly in this thread and just about every thread that mentions protein rests.

My experience of short rests at 55 degrees has so far suggested no such thing.

 

[///]

Apart from the P Rest for foam/body, dont get sucked up in the 'having to' which alot of the bigger guys do to save their filters. The theme of this thread is wheat beer (and hence a filter is evil), but for other beers the P rests are done to degrade carry over P's that would otherwise clag up the filters used ...

Scotty

 

[Nick JD]

possibly in this thread and just about every thread that mentions protein rests.

My experience of short rests at 55 degrees has so far suggested no such thing.

I don't do them and my beer is fine. Big Whoop to protein rests - waste of time.

Great for those who want to be head brewer. Not necessary for those who don't have their head in their arse.

 

[felten]

I don't do them and my beer is fine. Big Whoop to protein rests - waste of time.

Great for those who want to be head brewer. Not necessary for those who don't have their head in their arse.

Nicks way is the only way.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Nicks way is the only way.

Now that's just not true, there's lots of different ways to be an dickhead.