Plane shot down with 27 Aussies on board.

[Dave70]

My take on this is very simple, the school yard bully has been caught with his fingers in the cookie jar, and everyone's too scared to call him on it, because they might be his next victim. Allowing a bully to continue, without repercussion, only enforces in the bully's mind they have the right to act as they have previously. Where and when does the International community wish to draw the line.

You've basically just described the modus operandi used by every fanaticized l nutjob on the planet. The international community is seemingly more interested in strategic discourse and capitulation than line drawing, wouldn't want to offend anybody or appear insensitive you know. Wouldn't want to 'get involved' is something thats none of our business..

As tragically demonstrated in this thread, we've all potentially got a stake in the affairs of other countries. Like it or not. Acknowledge it or not.


My sincere condolences for you troubles Drew.
Stay strong mate.

 

[mje1980]

My take on this is very simple, the school yard bully has been caught with his fingers in the cookie jar, and everyone's too scared to call him on it, because they might be his next victim. Allowing a bully to continue, without repercussion, only enforces in the bully's mind they have the right to act as they have previously. Where and when does the International community wish to draw the line.

So, what should the international community do?

 

[MastersBrewery]

So, what should the international community do?

That is indeed a very good question, the better question is how many people need to die before, those responsible are called to account, and all for Putin's of adventurist empire building. 2 plane loads? 3 or 4 perhaps? International conventions are being pissed on and resulting in the Deaths of hundreds, then just to top this off, the victims are left to rot in a field to be looted. There is a great deal the international community could do. I note if there had been one Yank on that plane, access to that site would have been secured by now, even if that meant by force.

MB

 

[Mardoo]

Booargy my plane flew over Iraq during the second Iraq "war". I watched the pretty fireworks. With some apprehension!

 

[Feldon]

Here's an report from a Malaysian newspaper. Very different take compared to the mass media coverage here.

HRABOVE (Ukraine): The Dutch head of a team sent to identify the victims of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 praised the Ukrainian recovery workers who collected hundreds of bodies from a giant swathe of land in a war zone for doing a "hell of a job".

Peter van Vliet, leader of a three-man team of Dutch body identification experts, the first international investigators to visit the crash area, said his priority would be getting hundreds of bodies now stored in refrigerated rail cars to a location where they can be identified and sent home.

Despite reports that some of the bodies may have been looted and were never properly secured during days lying out in summer sun, van Vliet expressed admiration for the recovery crews that gathered them.

"I'm very impressed about the work that was done over here," he said after inspecting the main crash site, where bodies were still being found a day earlier pinned under chunks of aircraft wreckage.

Citing the heat and the scale of the site, he said: "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place."
Passengers from the Netherlands accounted for two-thirds of the 298 victims of Thursday's disaster.

more at: http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/07/21/MH17-Ukraine-team/ (can be very slow to load)

Also briefly reported on the BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28405448

And ABC News 24 ran this a day earlier (Sunday) : http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-20/mh-17-crash-site-journalist-describes-grim-scenes/5609930

 

[spog]

This Peter van Vliet sounds like a bloke who has respect for the victims and for the locals and helpers over there,and is not interested in the blame game.
Simply doing his job,once the media has wrung all the negativity out of the story they may then focus on the people like him who have no hidden agenda,people who simply care.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

it's because our beloved PM has flat out accused the Ukranian locals of messing around with the crash site.
“After the crime comes the cover-up,” and
"What we have seen is evidence-tampering on an industrial scale, and obviously that has to stop,”

 

[mje1980]

This Peter van Vliet sounds like a bloke who has respect for the victims and for the locals and helpers over there,and is not interested in the blame game.
Simply doing his job,once the media has wrung all the negativity out of the story they may then focus on the people like him who have no hidden agenda,people who simply care.

Once the hysteria has gone, the news coverage will just about stop completely. There'll be something else on the news we can all get morally outraged about.

 

[madpierre06]

With all due respect to those on AHB who have been impacted by this tragedy and not wishing to divert this into a political flameout, is it too cynical to suggest MV Tampa here? Given Abbot's polling prior too and post this event you have to wonder. When he first came out with his tough talk it all seemed a little too false for mine, particularly the inflammatory statements he was making when at that stage the causes of the tragedy were all supposition.

Back OT...my thoughts and prayers to all those here affected not just for now but over the coming months as this doesn't seem as if it will be resolved quickly and every day it drags out is going to be extremely tough for those who have been affected by the loss of loved ones.

 

[Dave70]

Here's an report from a Malaysian newspaper. Very different take compared to the mass media coverage here.

HRABOVE (Ukraine): The Dutch head of a team sent to identify the victims of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 praised the Ukrainian recovery workers who collected hundreds of bodies from a giant swathe of land in a war zone for doing a "hell of a job".

Peter van Vliet, leader of a three-man team of Dutch body identification experts, the first international investigators to visit the crash area, said his priority would be getting hundreds of bodies now stored in refrigerated rail cars to a location where they can be identified and sent home.

Despite reports that some of the bodies may have been looted and were never properly secured during days lying out in summer sun, van Vliet expressed admiration for the recovery crews that gathered them.

"I'm very impressed about the work that was done over here," he said after inspecting the main crash site, where bodies were still being found a day earlier pinned under chunks of aircraft wreckage.

Citing the heat and the scale of the site, he said: "I think they did a hell of a job in a hell of a place."
Passengers from the Netherlands accounted for two-thirds of the 298 victims of Thursday's disaster.

more at: http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/07/21/MH17-Ukraine-team/ (can be very slow to load)

Also briefly reported on the BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28405448

And ABC News 24 ran this a day earlier (Sunday) : http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-20/mh-17-crash-site-journalist-describes-grim-scenes/5609930

Stark contrast indeed with the reports I heard on AM radio this morning claiming over one hundred bodies had simply gone missing and basically painted the Ukrainians as a gaggle of lazy drunken pickpockets.

 

[Feldon]

Also in stark contrast to US, UK, Aust and Ukrainian views on the cause of this tragedy are 10 questions that the Russians have put to the US and Ukraine, along with releasing radar data and satellite images.

http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-questions/

Always good to consider both sides of the argument.

I suspect the Russians already have the answers to some of these questions and are giving the west enough rope to hang themselves.

In other reports audio recordings of the Ukrainian Air Traffic Control communication with MH17 have been seized by the Ukrainian govt and have not been released (yet) to investigators.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

yeah, but when that other side is RT..

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/print/412744.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-18/malaysia-airlines-mh17-phone-tap-separatists-responsibility/5606578

 

[Feldon]

I think that yarn was put to bed a few days ago. The reported radio intercepts were made public in a YouTube video (of all things). The original recordings, if they ever existed, have not been made public.

The YouTube cobbles together various rebel radio conversations taken from other previous anti-aircraft events over the preceding days. Makes it seem like it all takes place on the day MH17 went down. But the key thing is the creation date on the YouTube video upload is dated the day before MH17 went down.

Edit: here's a link to the YouTube video:

 

[Dave70]

I'm sure it's not lost on the parties involved, but if this pans out like the USS Vincennes tragedy in 88, there will most likely be a class action filed by the victims families and involving substantial compensation, and rightly so.
Unfortunately, just another reason to obfuscate the truth.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I think that yarn was put to bed a few days ago. The reported radio intercepts were made public in a YouTube video (of all things). The original recordings, if they ever existed, have not been made public.

The YouTube cobbles together various rebel radio conversations taken from other previous anti-aircraft events over the preceding days. Makes it seem like it all takes place on the day MH17 went down. But the key thing is the creation date on the YouTube video upload is dated the day before MH17 went down.

Edit: here's a link to the YouTube video:

That 'yarn' might have been put to bed a few days ago on conspiracytheoriesrusdotcom, but I don't recall it being put to bed in a court of law.

I wouldn't use the date attached to the video as evidence either, anyone can make a video and put whatever date they like on it.

It was first posted 5 days ago, that makes it the 19th. The plane was shot down on the 17th.

As for doing a 'hell of a job'. There has been looting, tampering of evidence, refusal to allow authorities in to investigate and mis-treatment of bodies. So far there are still approximately 100 bodies missing. That sure is one hell of a job.

There needs to be a bit more respect shown to the families of the victims. Conspiracy theories, based on Russian propaganda, are not a great way of doing that.

 

[mje1980]

Conspiracy theories based on any propaganda don't help. Nothing's been proven yet has it ?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

In true management style, what did the world leaders decide to do....have a meeting of course...and there still having meetings

And they will continue to just have meetings.....FFS Russia is one of the veto members of the UN Security Council. Do you honestly think they will pass any motion against them.......dont f&^%$g think so

Does Putin really give a ****......I doubt it....

 

[spog]

Heard an interview with a bloke involved with aviation on the radio today,he was a bit pissed off with the media and said that no one has bothered reporting the fact that 3 well known airlines were 15 minutes behind the MA flight and on the same flight path and height.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

yes...but they didnt get shot out of the sky, so its not really newsworthy....

 

[Liam_snorkel]

fish that got away