What Are You Aussie's Drinking, Anyway?

[Shed101]

As it ******* should be.

Anyone blaming excise is a full of shit dickhead. Yes, even you. Lower the excise on craft beers and it will still cost more than the megas and dumbfuck drunks will still by the cheap shit. Seriously - how many of you say "Geez, I could really go a RIS right about now...oh look at that! VB Raw is on sale!!!" Stupidity.

Yes, even you

Rubbish.

Aside from the bigotted inverse snobbery you've expressed you're comparing apples with motorbikes. People will buy beer regardless of the price, just like putting up the price of ciggies never works.

But it's not RIS Vs. VB Raw, it's more likely to be XXXX vs. Nirvana Pale Ale, people may try another brand of something that isn't too far away from their normal go-to.

I've heard from several brewers, bottleshop owners, and restaurateurs that in the past five years the people who drink craft beer has changed - it seems the Y-generation have taste buds (and probably a touch of snobbery) and they're not afraid of using them.

I didn't follow the link from the original link in this thread, but from the brewing news I read from the Oz, UK and USA, there has been a considerable trend to lower beer sales. But most reports also highlight a growth in sales of craft/cask/micro- beers!

Unfortunately the problem with this country is virtual monopolisation and cartels in most industries. Free markets don't work very well.

Woolies/Coles: >70% of Australian groceries market, own massive amounts of clubs, pubs and even breweries etc, etc.

It's that sort of behaviour that fucked up British breweries in the '60s, and the umbrella corporations nearly took the lot down.

With the lobbying power of these sorts of people, who are scared of the potential threat of

Take Japan. A micro- (which gets less heavily taxed) is anything under 1 million litres of beer / year and therefore account for 66% of beer in the country,

USA - 1.8 million litres.

Australia... 30,000 litres :blink:

So we should all be behind this http://www.fairgocraftbeer.com.au/ then maybe we can convert more of these bogans to real beer, not cold fizzy pop in shiny cans.

EDIT: Spooling

 

[Phoney]

This is enough to give even a Foster's-snubbing yank the willies: Aussies are abandoning beer in shocking numbers:

In August Foster's flagship beer, VB, fell by 15.4 per cent in volume, while its Pure Blonde brand fell by almost 20 per cent. Its Mexican import, Corona, bucked the trend and was up 20.2 per cent. It was a similar story for Lion Nathan, with XXXX down 4.2 per cent, Tooheys down 16.2 per cent and Boags down 8.1 per cent.​

This may be similar to the trend in the US, where domestics are down, though the Corona data point confuses matter. As to the performance of Australian craft breweries, the Morning Herald says only this: "Mr Bowley said these drivers included consumers dumping beers such as VB or Tooheys for imports and boutique beers." Good, I guess, but I'd like to see some numbers.

The main reason for the shift is pricing.

15-20 years ago, a case of VB/Tooheys New/XXXX would cost around $20 while a case of imported European beer would be $40-$50. It was a no brainer for anyone on any sort of budget as to which beer they are going to drink.

Now, cases of VB/Tooheys New/XXXX sell for $40 and imported Euro lagers (and Corona) are around $50 a case. Or for something like Hollandia - $35 a case. If the price is the nearly same, why wouldn't you switch to something that's a bit nicer?

 

[jonocarroll]

Anyone blaming excise is a full of shit dickhead. Yes, even you. Lower the excise on craft beers and it will still cost more than the megas and dumbfuck drunks will still by the cheap shit. Seriously - how many of you say "Geez, I could really go a RIS right about now...oh look at that! VB Raw is on sale!!!" Stupidity.

Yes, even you

Don't light any matches nearby - that strawman's flammable.

Excusing your vituperation-as-an-argument for a moment, suggesting that since afficionados wouldn't drink a cheaper product based on price, reducing the price-point is futile, is glib at best.

Bogans drink Corona and Crown Lager because it's expensive, not because it's cheap. They drink XXXX because it's what they know. There's a big gap between the prices, so the distinction is placed in the mind of the bogan. Now, suppose that XXXX was cheaper-than-ever, but JSIPA was only slightly more expensive. The gap is now, say, $1 to pretend you're drinking the expensive stuff, but now it has flavour. It may even be cheap enough that JSIPA becomes a regular drop, eventually allowing enough taste-buds to grow such that the bogan actually seeks out the better beer on his/her own.

You may not want bogans drinking your good beer, but the more of it they buy the more of it you'll see around. I hope for the day when a local bottleshop stocks just as much Aussie craft beer as Aussie megaswill because the price difference is so small that enough people are buying it.

Oh... and whoever disagrees with me is a Nazi-loving-panda-killing-homosexual-xenophobic-clown. And I stopped reading your post at the typo. And you're bollocks at debate.

 

[Shed101]

And I stopped reading your post at the typo. And you're bollocks at debate.

Great post. Shame about the last word. I'll have a verb please Bob! :lol:

 

[MitchDudarko]

Since when have the Americans been worried about anything but themselves?
P.S... I use my kangaroos pouch as a hopback...

:blink:

 

[jonocarroll]

Great post. Shame about the last word. I'll have a verb please Bob! :lol:

Bollocks at sport. Bollocks at math. Bollocks at debate. Not just the act itself, but the concept in general.

The affect is probably missing in text, but I stand by my choice of prose.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

and beer on tap - when it is good, is too expensive. I can pick up a six pack for the price of 2 pints.

Goomba

 

[black_labb]

The excise on beer may be part of it, but the lack of excise on wine definately is a big part of it. what do cheap uni students buy to drink cheaply? a 8-12$ cask of wine. what do they drink after they've graduated and have a larger alcohol budget? bottled wine as they already have the taste developed for it. Whenever they go somewhere and someone gives them a beer it will most likely be megaswill crap and they are reminded why they drink wine.

I'm a uni student but even a 35+yr old customer at my work described himself basically along these lines until he tried hoegarden in his mid 30's and has been trying beers recently, but is still mainly a wine drinker.

Its unfortunate that in this country the only big group of "beer drinkers" are the bogans. its good to see craft brew drinker numbers growing but were deffinately outnumbered by the bogans. Unfortunately we kind of need them to keep the brewing industry in decent shape.

 

[pk.sax]

and beer on tap - when it is good, is too expensive. I can pick up a six pack for the price of 2 pints.

Goomba

That is a big one. In fact, @ 10 quid a pint for most good beers at pubs (including mountain goat/Hargreaves etc...), you can usually buy a six pack cheaper of Aussie craft beer or a 6/4 pack of imported craft beer.

Taxation is definitely a part of a bigger problem here. Bogans drink out of bottles at home etc and it shows on beer prices too, unfortunately.

 

[phonos]

This bogan likes dark German lagers. All I am saying is give bogans a chance

 

[mje1980]

Over the next few days this aussie will be drinking

Samuel smith's Taddy porter

Youngs bitter

paulaner salvator

Westmalle tripel

Altenmunster ( guessing a munster alt?? )

 

[drtomc]

Now, boys, be nice. I know some very nice bogans. Well, okay, I know some nice people, and some bogans, anyway.

Quantum Brewer, the perspicacity of your vocabulary is going to force me to the dictionary one of these days.

T.

 

[Nick JD]

Something lacking in this discussion is what is good beer? The vast majority of beer drinkers want to get drunk, or at least a little bit tiddly. They don't want to sit there and pontificate the subtlties of the cascade aroma or the malt-driven yeast esters ... they want it cold, fizzy and tasteless. THEY REALLY DO!

Wising up to the finer points of beer is all well and good, but it's not what the vast majority want from their beer. A XXXX Bitter is what heaps of people want from a beer. Failing to realise this makes some sound like a numbnuts swilling their IIPAs and chatting about microbreweries.

Beer is really the only "savoury" (not sweet) booze available. It appeals to the bloke - and said bloke doesn't want his beer to taste like flowers or fruit. HE REALLY DOESN'T.

Homebrewers become obsessed with the range of beer available to them, and the range of ingredients. Why make Aussie Lager when you can make a smoked beer with 300g of Amarillo and a stick of cinnamon in it? Tell me you've never hop chromed? Overwhelmingly, all of my non-brewing mates enjoy my bland, 25 IBU pale beers with no late hop additions - and I used to think this was due to uneducated taste, now I fear as homebrewers we get wound up in the vast variety of beer available to us and forget that most people don't want their beer to taste like grapefruit.

Most people just wanna get pissed ... and laid ... and if she thinks you're windswept and interesting because you are holding a Cerveza ... you'll buy it. Start chatting to her about IBUs and the finer points of rye in American APAs ... and she'll be ******* your buddy by 11pm.

 

[kocken42]

Sometimes many of us craft beer enthusiasts forget that we are surrounded by a 'bubble' which is the world of craft brewing.

Stepping outside of our little niche world will allow most of us to understand beer drinking culture and preferences in Australia, rather than just laughing at the rest of the world from inside the 'bubble'.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

This bogan likes dark German lagers. All I am saying is give bogans a chance

Sorry dude, as soon as you like a dark German Lager, you've betrayed the bogan-brotherhood and now no longer classed as a bogan. It's not yellow, it's not brewed in Australia, therefore it's not a bogan beer.

Goomba

 

[JestersDarts]

Something lacking in this discussion is what is good beer? The vast majority of beer drinkers want to get drunk, or at least a little bit tiddly. They don't want to sit there and pontificate the subtlties of the cascade aroma or the malt-driven yeast esters ... they want it cold, fizzy and tasteless. THEY REALLY DO!

Wising up to the finer points of beer is all well and good, but it's not what the vast majority want from their beer. A XXXX Bitter is what heaps of people want from a beer. Failing to realise this makes some sound like a numbnuts swilling their IIPAs and chatting about microbreweries.

Beer is really the only "savoury" (not sweet) booze available. It appeals to the bloke - and said bloke doesn't want his beer to taste like flowers or fruit. HE REALLY DOESN'T.

Homebrewers become obsessed with the range of beer available to them, and the range of ingredients. Why make Aussie Lager when you can make a smoked beer with 300g of Amarillo and a stick of cinnamon in it? Tell me you've never hop chromed? Overwhelmingly, all of my non-brewing mates enjoy my bland, 25 IBU pale beers with no late hop additions - and I used to think this was due to uneducated taste, now I fear as homebrewers we get wound up in the vast variety of beer available to us and forget that most people don't want their beer to taste like grapefruit.

Most people just wanna get pissed ... and laid ... and if she thinks you're windswept and interesting because you are holding a Cerveza ... you'll buy it. Start chatting to her about IBUs and the finer points of rye in American APAs ... and she'll be ******* your buddy by 11pm.

Jestersdarts likes this

 

[jonocarroll]

Something lacking in this discussion is what is good beer? The vast majority of beer drinkers want to get drunk, or at least a little bit tiddly. They don't want to sit there and pontificate the subtlties of the cascade aroma or the malt-driven yeast esters ... they want it cold, fizzy and tasteless. THEY REALLY DO!

Wising up to the finer points of beer is all well and good, but it's not what the vast majority want from their beer. A XXXX Bitter is what heaps of people want from a beer. Failing to realise this makes some sound like a numbnuts swilling their IIPAs and chatting about microbreweries.

I disagree, partly.

While the majority of drinkers don't care how it got there, many of them are interested in the flavour. Sitting in more than a few USA brewpubs made me realise that people DO like the taste of 'good' (read: flavourful) beer. The room was not full of cardigan-wearing-bearded-caskies pontificating over hopping schedules and decoctions, but not a minute went by without someone coming up to the bar saying "that was beautiful - what else do you have like that?" or "I'll try the APA - what does that stand for?", and plenty of regular folk taking their first sip then exclaiming "wow - that's amazing!".

Yes, people are very happy to get drunk from their beers, and I'll leave the folk that choose cola-disguised hard-spirits over beer to their own methods. The people who like a tasty refreshing drink however are prime targets for craft beers, and there's a fortune to be made by the first company to get the craft beers into those people's hands en masse. I would bet that one of the major discouraging factors for those companies however, is excise. Another is of course marketing, but as stated, I believe that would work itself out if the price was competitive.

 

[petesbrew]

Something lacking in this discussion is what is good beer? The vast majority of beer drinkers want to get drunk, or at least a little bit tiddly. They don't want to sit there and pontificate the subtlties of the cascade aroma or the malt-driven yeast esters ... they want it cold, fizzy and tasteless. THEY REALLY DO!

Wising up to the finer points of beer is all well and good, but it's not what the vast majority want from their beer. A XXXX Bitter is what heaps of people want from a beer. Failing to realise this makes some sound like a numbnuts swilling their IIPAs and chatting about microbreweries.

Beer is really the only "savoury" (not sweet) booze available. It appeals to the bloke - and said bloke doesn't want his beer to taste like flowers or fruit. HE REALLY DOESN'T.

Homebrewers become obsessed with the range of beer available to them, and the range of ingredients. Why make Aussie Lager when you can make a smoked beer with 300g of Amarillo and a stick of cinnamon in it? Tell me you've never hop chromed? Overwhelmingly, all of my non-brewing mates enjoy my bland, 25 IBU pale beers with no late hop additions - and I used to think this was due to uneducated taste, now I fear as homebrewers we get wound up in the vast variety of beer available to us and forget that most people don't want their beer to taste like grapefruit.

Most people just wanna get pissed ... and laid ... and if she thinks you're windswept and interesting because you are holding a Cerveza ... you'll buy it. Start chatting to her about IBUs and the finer points of rye in American APAs ... and she'll be ******* your buddy by 11pm.

Well said & very true.

 

[Eater]

OT

Are we now Nick not talking about the difference in a session type beer versus a beer designed for consumption with a meal (or other slow intake process)?
Session beers to me are as you say (mostly) cold and fizzy and with less flavour (some ales, most lagers to me) than say a Russian Imperial Stout that i had with my steak the other night. If you were to look at the "get pissed" numbers, i think the RIS is right up there in the tipsy area and probably the equivalent of around 3 XXXX beers. I drank that particular beer as it was IMHO a good accompaniment to the meal, not to get pisshammered.
To look at the cow from the other end, i would prefer 3 XXXX beers after bricklaying in the sun all day, and not a massive bitter/flavoursome beer like the RIS. They would be refreshing (as long as served cold) and appreciated for the beer most able to give me a good feeling (not tipsy staggers, more satisfaction of job done and cold bubbly savoury reward) at the time. Im not a fan of the XXXX especially when drunk at less than cold temps (father has awesome habit of letting it warm up first to "enhance the flavour", which i remind him that although rusty barbed wire is a flavour its not an enhancement) but would happily take a cold XXXX over a warm beer any day.
I pay the premium for a "good" tasting session beer as it is by far more preferred than XXXX when i have the opportunity to control my own fate in the drinking choice for an extended period of time.
I pay the premium for a "good" tasting beer for the times when flavour and beer profile are more sought after at the time.

(Nick edited while i was making my post, and i also agree with his statement on "Most people just wanna get pissed ... and laid ... and if she thinks you're windswept and interesting because you are holding a Cerveza ... you'll buy it. Start chatting to her about IBUs and the finer points of rye in American APAs ... and she'll be ******* your buddy by 11pm. ")


(note: 1. XXXX can be subbed for any other beer regarded here as Mega Swill
2. I try and brew for good flavour in all beers i do, regardless of session type, as thats what I want)

 

[Nick JD]

I disagree, partly.

While the majority of drinkers don't care how it got there, many of them are interested in the flavour. Sitting in more than a few USA brewpubs made me realise that people DO like the taste of 'good' (read: flavourful) beer. The room was not full of cardigan-wearing-bearded-caskies pontificating over hopping schedules and decoctions, but not a minute went by without someone coming up to the bar saying "that was beautiful - what else do you have like that?" or "I'll try the APA - what does that stand for?", and plenty of regular folk taking their first sip then exclaiming "wow - that's amazing!".

Yes, people are very happy to get drunk from their beers, and I'll leave the folk that choose cola-disguised hard-spirits over beer to their own methods. The people who like a tasty refreshing drink however are prime targets for craft beers, and there's a fortune to be made by the first company to get the craft beers into those people's hands en masse. I would bet that one of the major discouraging factors for those companies however, is excise. Another is of course marketing, but as stated, I believe that would work itself out if the price was competitive.

I agree - but people like to drink with their wallets as well, and there's no way you can make an IPA for the same cost as an Aussie Lager (which is code for the cheapest beer it's possible to make). I suspect we'll never see a nice tasting beer not going for a serious premuim.

Question: why don't the megabreweries make XXXX or Carlton IPA or XXXX Hefeweizen?

My answer is I think they would be spat out in disgust. BEER THAT TASTES LIKE BANANAS AND BUBBLE GUM! FARK OFF HIPPY!