What Are You Aussie's Drinking, Anyway?

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Something lacking in this discussion is what is good beer? The vast majority of beer drinkers want to get drunk, or at least a little bit tiddly. They don't want to sit there and pontificate the subtlties of the cascade aroma or the malt-driven yeast esters ... they want it cold, fizzy and tasteless. THEY REALLY DO!

I kind of disagree with this also - sure if you hand your VB drinker an IPA they aren't necessarily going to approve. But there is more to taste than hops and roast. Flavoursome beer doesn't have to bash you over the head. If you brew a pale highly attenuated lager with POR, and brew it well (unlike VB), your VB drinker will love it - it will have real flavour and be an objectively good beer too.
 
Hey, in 5 years the price might go up more, craft beer will have gone up with it, and more people will be homebrewing as a result.

Then more people will be having these arguments about how craft brewers can increase their market share to the same "blue blood" beer drinkers that have converted to homebrewing.

The climate is a big factor in beer here - it needs to be cold and get tipped down the gullet easier.

I think there is a bit of affluence kicking in here - beer is seen as a "cheap drink" and as there is more disposable income it is spent on "expensive drinks" - spirits & RTD's. Just like how Crown gets sold just because it's more expensive (hah, and the Crown Ambassador picked up Brett - way to go). Had a crown at 15C the other day at a work function, it was **** and wouldn't have been a lot better colder.
 
I kind of disagree with this also - sure if you hand your VB drinker an IPA they aren't necessarily going to approve. But there is more to taste than hops and roast. Flavoursome beer doesn't have to bash you over the head. If you brew a pale highly attenuated lager with POR, and brew it well (unlike VB), your VB drinker will love it - it will have real flavour and be an objectively good beer too.

That's why JS Golden ale is squire's highest selling beer - not massive but enough flavour to keep someone interested and also "sessionable" - try having a session on JS Pils as a first timer - first time i got to 4-5 schooners and wanted to go mow my tongue...
 
I kind of disagree with this also - sure if you hand your VB drinker an IPA they aren't necessarily going to approve. But there is more to taste than hops and roast. Flavoursome beer doesn't have to bash you over the head. If you brew a pale highly attenuated lager with POR, and brew it well (unlike VB), your VB drinker will love it - it will have real flavour and be an objectively good beer too.

People who smoke cigarettes (or have in the past like me) might understand when I say this; a lot of people drink their beer because that's what beer tastes like even it it tastes like ****.

I remember back when I smoked Marlboro, a B&H tasted hideous (actually, they both tasted hideous but I was oblivious and needed a fix). Then I changed brands and the Marlboro tated awful.

I guess I'm trying to say I don't think familiarity breeds contempt, I think it breeds a warm, fuzzy comfortable ignorance. Sure, that beer tastes nice - NOW GET ME A VB!
 
That's why JS Golden ale is squire's highest selling beer - not massive but enough flavour to keep someone interested and also "sessionable" - try having a session on JS Pils as a first timer - first time i got to 4-5 schooners and wanted to go mow my tongue...

JSGA is pretty bland. I can only just taste the Amarillo - they are a bit tight with it. For good reason - Amarillo tastes like deodorant.
 
Jestersdarts likes this


+ 1 from me too.

Ultimately it seems to me that it boils down to:

1. market economics, particularly given the relative size of the Australian market compared to say the UK or USA. If a process is not economically viable, it will not occur (unless you are Frank Lowy and, for example, are happy to fund the FFA with no realistic expectation of a return) - a smaller market requires a relatively greater market share before a product becomes economically viable (and I agree with the potential need for a change in excise to assist micro- breweries here as a possible solution);

2. exposure, which to a certain extent follows on from the previous point - if you are a vendor, you want to offer things that will sell so that you too can make some money. As such, any change in products being offered will generally (unless you have a somewhat evangelistic vendor who spruiks a new product or range) be prompted by customer demands. With respect to beer, particularly outside major population centres, I suspect that this may most likely be driven by peer pressure (eg a beer nerd's never-ending quest for 'something new') or a change in environment (eg a trip overseas/ interstate/ etc) where the old product is not available/ hard to obtain and therefore a change is imposed;

3. habit - humans seem to be very habit driven creatures. If it ain't broke, why fix it? In this instance, without exposure to other beers, how will you know if you like/ don't like them, especially if the "Ol' Faithful" is doing the job pretty good at the moment;

4. the view that one beer is somehow "better" than another is entirely subjective to the taste of any given individual, the moment at which it is drunk, the reason it is drunk and any number of other factors. If the drinker enjoys it, then it is a good beer (I am not saying that a beer cannot be judged and graded, just that such a judgment or grading is based on a set of objective criteria only, which may or may not be preferences of the individual drinker);

5. greater choice of alternatives to beer and an acceptance of those alternatives - it used to be that if a bloke drank anything other than beer (aside from a switch to bourbon/ rum/ scotch at some point later in the evening) then he was viewed as, well, unusual. Nowdays it seems to me that, particularly in larger population centres, trends have shifted such that even alco-pops are entirely acceptable drinks for a (usually younger) guy.

Ultimately, I am not really all that worried if less beer is made/ drunk in Aust - from a purely personal point of view, I will be extremely happy as long as the trend towards a greater range of beers are available across the board (eg pubs, restaurants, bottlo's) and I can keep making my own (half-decent and non-poisonous to date :beerbang: ) beer.

Speaking of which (assumes deep, gravelly voice), I'd love one now ... although probably not "that" variety!

(just read that post back - wow :eek: , bit long really and haven't even had a drink to blame it on!)
 
not when he has to pay for it.

This works for stuff other than AIPA, etc.

The reason for this is that an AIPA is pretty cheap to brew - realistically. The high AA% and flavoursomeness (is that a word?) of American hops, means that I can brew an AIPA/APA/IPA pretty cheap. It's ESB and German beers that kill me - to get the IBU up to scale and the flavour up, you really need to spend more money on hops than AIPA etc. I know a Euro-style beer/Pommie Bitter costs me a considerable amount more than an AIPA etc. I don't care, because I enjoy it.

But on a grand bottle-o scale - the german lagers are cheaper, despite assumedly more hops required and the shipping/importing costs, than say an Aussie APA. Even factoring in economies of scale that a large Euro brewer has and greater ability to slim the margin per stubbie and still make a profit - this still translates to a massive jump in price from the Euro-swill to Aussie made craft APA.

Then there's corona, which costs all of US2 to make, yet we pay (stupidly) $17 per six pack or so, and at a cafe, anywhere from $5 to $8.50 per stubbie. For Corona?

I'm not drawing any conclusions, or refuting/agreeing with anyone, just muddying the waters a bit.

Goomba
 
To answer the question to the thread - I'm currently drinking Oettenger Pils at $30/carton which is cheaper than all the other beers. Even the mega's were around the $40 mark.

It's only a gapstop until my kegs are ready to be cracked - which is next weekend thankfully. I felt like a no nonsense beer which didn't really taste like much. Normally I'll buy some Fat Yak or JS IPA but at my local woollies they are double the price of the Oettenger and I couldn't be bothered going to Dan's.

I find it funny that people bag out the drinkers of the mega swill calling them bogans and what ever. A few years ago I couldn't stand drinking LCPA - it was a fruity girly beer to me, give me swan draught and I'd be happy as that's the extent of what my palate could handle. Spend a few years in London and travel to europe as often as I could and that helped me enjoy all those different flavoured beers including the bland ones. It's what helped get me into homebrewing which inturn further extended the palate.

My old man enjoys going to the bowling club for a middie of what ever is cold and on tap, the introduction of slightly different styles (eg tooheys pils) by the megas has meant that he has experienced a few little different flavours and seems to enjoy some of my beers. He won't pay the higher price for the craft beers, but would if they were on par with the mega.
 
To answer the question to the thread - I'm currently drinking Oettenger Pils at $30/carton which is cheaper than all the other beers. Even the mega's were around the $40 mark.

It's only a gapstop until my kegs are ready to be cracked - which is next weekend thankfully. I felt like a no nonsense beer which didn't really taste like much. Normally I'll buy some Fat Yak or JS IPA but at my local woollies they are double the price of the Oettenger and I couldn't be bothered going to Dan's.

I find it funny that people bag out the drinkers of the mega swill calling them bogans and what ever. A few years ago I couldn't stand drinking LCPA - it was a fruity girly beer to me, give me swan draught and I'd be happy as that's the extent of what my palate could handle. Spend a few years in London and travel to europe as often as I could and that helped me enjoy all those different flavoured beers including the bland ones. It's what helped get me into homebrewing which inturn further extended the palate.

My old man enjoys going to the bowling club for a middie of what ever is cold and on tap, the introduction of slightly different styles (eg tooheys pils) by the megas has meant that he has experienced a few little different flavours and seems to enjoy some of my beers. He won't pay the higher price for the craft beers, but would if they were on par with the mega.

+1 - Dan's has Oettinger 500ml cans for $13.99 for a six pack. That's 3L worth of beer. That equates to $9.23 per six pack of stubbies (if assuming 330ml per stubbie).

How the hell can they get that much beer from the EU here in Oz and sell it at that price?

Dunno the answer, but when the brauerei is in shoulder season and Minister of War & Finance has reduced my beer budget because of home brew budget increases, I'm chugging away on that pale stuff. At least I don't get headaches, unlike the sulphite filled junk brewed here - one stubbie of [insert Aussie megaswill] and I'm hungover for 4 days. And that's gold beer.

Goomba
 
Something that has always made me think a little about the "homebrewer's bias" is the Coopers Bottle Store offerings - the ones with the sediment in them.

Now, short of a bit of banana/pear ester on the nose and a bit of flavour if you stir the yeast, it's not a whole lot different to the taste of all the megaswills, yet it's universally applauded as a good beer. Why? It's got only early additions of PoR, no body, little head retention, no real hop flavour, etc etc.

It's VB with a hint of esters ... yet homebrewers love it. Give it a good hard smell - there's even those VB mercaptans in there.

It's as "different" as the Aussie Bloke can handle. Some faint esters.
 
Something that has always made me think a little about the "homebrewer's bias" is the Coopers Bottle Store offerings - the ones with the sediment in them.

Now, short of a bit of banana/pear ester on the nose and a bit of flavour if you stir the yeast, it's not a whole lot different to the taste of all the megaswills, yet it's universally applauded as a good beer. Why? It's got only early additions of PoR, no body, little head retention, no real hop flavour, etc etc.

It's VB with a hint of esters ... yet homebrewers love it. Give it a good hard smell - there's even those VB mercaptans in there.

It's as "different" as the Aussie Bloke can handle. Some faint esters.

Yup - and it is called a "Pale Ale" - technically correct, it is about 4 SRM and is an ale. But I compare that with say Baron's Pale Ale, which has Pacific hallertauer and Nelson Sauvin and has a lot of aroma. And it is like they are two different types of beer (not just flavour wise, but profile wise), yet technically they are the same variety of beer and both meet BCJP guidelines for that type of beer.

Again, no answer, just questions - but I can only wonder what difference it makes to people who look at the two and go "well if coopers is a pale ale, I don't need to try that one". The upside is that baron's is $13.99/six pack at Dan's and I rate this batch very highly, whereas some previous batches have been a bit meh.

Goomba
 
Something that has always made me think a little about the "homebrewer's bias" is the Coopers Bottle Store offerings - the ones with the sediment in them.

Now, short of a bit of banana/pear ester on the nose and a bit of flavour if you stir the yeast, it's not a whole lot different to the taste of all the megaswills, yet it's universally applauded as a good beer. Why? It's got only early additions of PoR, no body, little head retention, no real hop flavour, etc etc.

It's VB with a hint of esters ... yet homebrewers love it. Give it a good hard smell - there's even those VB mercaptans in there.

It's as "different" as the Aussie Bloke can handle. Some faint esters.

A lot of homebrewers probably have a soft spot for Coopers as their first homebrew gear was possibly an off the shelf coopers job. Also because it's not one of the big 2 so a lot of people who drink it think they are being edgy & what not.

The reason why they named their Pilsener '62 was apparently because they make 62 million litres of beer a year or something to that effect.

Personally I can't stand Coopers Sparkling or Pale Ale. I'll drink their stout on occasion. In fact I drank one last night. A 750ml bottle for $7 I think:)
 
A lot of homebrewers probably have a soft spot for Coopers ...

Personally I quite like it, but then again I like almost anything that's brown and fizzy. All beers have their good qualities unless they're rotten.

I'm more than happy to drink a XXXX or a Carlton offering and have also been known to brew enjoyable clones of the megaswill.

I stand by my theory that it's much easier to make a hoppy APA taste grand than it is to brew a better XXXX Bitter. Cluster is a very underrated hop.
 
The reason why they named their Pilsener '62 was apparently because they make 62 million litres of beer a year or something to that effect.

I'd assumed that it was called that because the brewery was established in 1862 but that's an assumption backed by no research whatsoever.

Coopers red label was my favourite beer for about 12 years up until I got introduced to good home brew & beer from smaller breweries after that. It's interesting that from drinking some different beers I now don't mind west end draught after hating it for over 10 years. I wouldn't go out & buy a slab of it but I'll have a can or 2 at the footy now instead of either not drinking or sneaking coopers in.
 
I got back from the states over a week ago, and while I did intentionally stay in beer-focused areas, we have soo far to go to approach comparison.

Price plays a huge part in my limited experience.
I thought that PBR, which is kind of a discerning bogan drink, tasted like what we would call a premium lager and charge $60 or so a case for. You can get a pint of PBR for like $2 at a bar.
We are bringing in Bud, perhaps even brewing it locally, and we will be stupid enough to pay at least 3 times as much as your average fratboy.

My girlfriend and I quickly popped in to a reputable beer bar on our way home in SF and were able to get $3 happy hour glasses (6oz or so) of Consecration. That nearly brew my mind. I got geuze on tap for $5, I could have sat on it all night. For the princely sum of $6 or so, you can get near anything.

If I drank here like I spent my time drinking beer over there it would be astronomically expensive, even if it is exceptional cosumption behaviour.

I did like that the micros seemed to be a source of local pride for your average non-brewing person. I see a distinct difference between this and the Australian "I can't believe how many different kinds there are" novelty value thing. That said, I saw one of my ol' boy's mates, unashamedly a rugged bogan boozer, turn up to a party with a bunch of Fiddler's Elbow bottles. Maybe novelty, maybe change.

ED: What are us Aussies drinking? - probably homebrew.
Would I homebrew if I lived in the states? I can't answer that yet.
 

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