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Just had a look, i think im inspired to start some AG!
 
Just wondering what you would recommend for a beginner? just do it as it says at the start of the thread?
Yep, pretty much, if that works out well (usually the case) then either keep doing it or move up to a bigger kettle and bigger batches. Alternatively, it is possible to do 23L batches in a 19L kettle if that's what you've got, that's the over- gravity thing I mentioned before.
When you say stick with regular strength do you mean only boil what ill pitch at 1040-1050 type of thing?
Yes, that's it, no over- gravity or post- boil dilution.
Just had a look, i think im inspired to start some AG!
Yeah, I was too and some 60- odd batches later I'm still using my trusty 19L stockpot!
Seriously, the stovetop BIAB method works really well on a tight budget and with minimal risk, but knocks out some excellent AG beer that's up there with the rest and isn't as limited for batch size as conventional wisdom would dictate. It isn't restricted from exploring more advanced techniques either, I do decoctions, step mashes etc regularly, so it isn't really a dead end at all, more the on ramp of a great big AG highway! :icon_cheers:
 
As someone who did 3 kits and then tried a small BIAB brew with minimum setup costs:
Voile $10
17l stockpot $25
Gas Burner $15
Prices NZD

Just do it. it really is easy, although I've never done extracts or anything, I'm not really sure why people would bother, from what I've read its no easier than a small BIAB brew.

If I was doing it again I'd buy a bigger stockpot, but to go from 17L to anything bigger would have cost $80 or more.
my first brew is still in the FV, 6 days now, has got from 1050 to 1016 and had to try a bit last night, oh my F%^#cking word it tastes marvellous!

Nodrog,
You got it in one !!!
One of those Warehouse 17L pots I bet. I've got the same set up. Up to 14th BIAB with it. Beer is great, process is so simple.
pb12
 
That's the one, 16.5 litres, not 17 ! cheeky buggers


how much yield can you get out of your set up? Bottled my first attempt yesterday, I got 10-1/2 750ml bottles, bit dissapointed its not even a fortnight's supply at one a night.

Think i need to look at doing overstrength boils and then diluting, or using partials. what do you do?

Nodrog,
You got it in one !!!
One of those Warehouse 17L pots I bet. I've got the same set up. Up to 14th BIAB with it. Beer is great, process is so simple.
pb12
 
Nick, big thanks for taking the time to document all these brews. This thread is the sole reason I attempted my first all grain brew last night. Put down a half batch of DSGA which looks like:
1.2kg wey pils
400g wey munich 1
400g wey pale wheat
125g wey caramunich 1
10g amarillo @ 60
8g amarillo @ 10 (plus 1/3 ish tablet of whirlfloc)
8g amarillo @ 5
US05 half packet sprinkled on top of cooled wort.

Started the process at 7.30pm. Added yeast at 12.20am. Overall a bit longer than I expected but that includes an hour or so in an ice bath to cool the pot down plus all the downtime watching the footy.
I did a sparge step as I needed to add water before the boil anyway, the gravity of the sparge water was 14 so possibly a waste of time.

Ended uo with bang on 9L @ 1.048 which is within a point of what I expected!
I didnt notice a hot break, there was lots of froth at it came to the boil but it was not a thick type scum so I left it there and started the hop additions.

Again, big thanks Nick. Looking forward to tasting in a few weeks.
 
Nick, big thanks for taking the time to document all these brews. This thread is the sole reason I attempted my first all grain brew last night. Put down a half batch of DSGA which looks like:
1.2kg wey pils
400g wey munich 1
400g wey pale wheat
125g wey caramunich 1
10g amarillo @ 60
8g amarillo @ 10 (plus 1/3 ish tablet of whirlfloc)
8g amarillo @ 5
US05 half packet sprinkled on top of cooled wort.

Started the process at 7.30pm. Added yeast at 12.20am. Overall a bit longer than I expected but that includes an hour or so in an ice bath to cool the pot down plus all the downtime watching the footy.
I did a sparge step as I needed to add water before the boil anyway, the gravity of the sparge water was 14 so possibly a waste of time.

Ended uo with bang on 9L @ 1.048 which is within a point of what I expected!
I didnt notice a hot break, there was lots of froth at it came to the boil but it was not a thick type scum so I left it there and started the hop additions.

Again, big thanks Nick. Looking forward to tasting in a few weeks.

No worries - that's gonna taste amazing. I'm still yet to do a DSGA ... and I've just realised I have all the ingredients 'cept the US05. Thanks for the inspiration, I think I'll do the Doc's ale next!
 
That's the one, 16.5 litres, not 17 ! cheeky buggers


how much yield can you get out of your set up? Bottled my first attempt yesterday, I got 10-1/2 750ml bottles, bit dissapointed its not even a fortnight's supply at one a night.

Think i need to look at doing overstrength boils and then diluting, or using partials. what do you do?

I reckon you should splash out on a burner and a 40L pot!
 
I did my first all grain brew on Friday using the technique in this thread so I thought I'd share some photos:


IMG_2347.jpg

Equipment set up and ready to go! From left to right and front to rear:


Hops, yeast, hop bags (home made) potato masher

Pyrex measuring jug, scales (for measuring oats, I have a little set of gram scales for hops), Grain bag (home made) Green rubber gloves, thermometer, Beersmith printout, 19L Big W pot

2L plastic jug

Wife's laptop with AHB on it, Quick oats, Bag of grain (crushed and ready to go from Grain and Grape), big bowl



IMG_2348.jpg


Heating up the mash water.


IMG_2349.jpg


Mash in.


IMG_2350.jpg


Sleep well little grains!


IMG_2351.jpg


Draining the bag, I need to get all the beery goodness out!


IMG_2352.jpg


The boil. Note the hop bag floating happily.


IMG_2354.jpg


Spent grain. Now where the hell is a horse when you need one!


IMG_2355.jpg


All sealed up and ready to cool.


IMG_2356.jpg


Work hard little yeasties!




I did things slightly differently to the procedure. I started off with 11.5L of water as this was what Beersmith calculated I would need to get 9L of wort.

After taking out the bag, doing the sparge with 1L of water, squeezing the life out of the bag and throwing the liquid back in the pot I ended up with a gravity of 1.047

Here is where I made the only real mistake of the day, I threw first hop bag in before the pot came to the boil. As soon as I realized what I had done I took it out and put it in the pyrex jug. Once the pot came to the boil I put it back in again. I don't think any real damage was done as the wort still tasted alright. After the boil was finished I sealed everything up and buggered off to work for 9 hours (I work afternoon shift). When I got home I transfered the wort into my fermenter. I ended up with about 8.5 liters ( I lost about half a liter to keep the trub out of the fermenter) so Beersmith wasn't far out. I checked the gravity which came out to 1.061. Just a bit high for my liking :blink: I calculated the amount of water needed to dilute to 1.050 with Beersmith which turned out to be 2L, boiled it up in the kettle and added to the fermenter. This brought the gravity to spot on 1.051. Now of course the wort is too hot to pitch the yeast so I put the fermenter in to the kitchen sink filled with water and 3 cooler bricks out of the freezer. It took about 40 minutes to bring the wort down to 24 degrees. While this was happening I re-hydrated the yeast using the directions on the back of the packet (I only used half the packet). Once the fermenter was cool enough I gave it a good shake, pitched the yeast and set it up on the laundry bench to do it's thing :D

The whole process was really fascinating, and a great learning curve. I realize I went in to it a bit more scientifically than was the intent of the original procedure but that's just the way I am :p I am still not sure why my gravity turned out so high but I assume it is just a matter of too much grain? Not that I am complaining mind you, I am sure it is better to have too high a gravity than too low :beer:

All in all I think this is a great process to give an all grain noob a good understanding of what is going on and I for one will definitely be having another go.

Paul.
 
That's the one, 16.5 litres, not 17 ! cheeky buggers


how much yield can you get out of your set up? Bottled my first attempt yesterday, I got 10-1/2 750ml bottles, bit dissapointed its not even a fortnight's supply at one a night.

Think i need to look at doing overstrength boils and then diluting, or using partials. what do you do?
Yeah, it is disappointing when the batch size is fairly small. But you can do bigger batches with that stockpot and this method, it has the essentials, but I'll add a couple of fairly trivial steps describing what I do as well. As Nick suggests, a spanking great big new pot would be nice, I'll tell you how to get by until then though.
Basically you can just largely ignore what your pot/kettle volume actual is (well to some extent, I'm just assuming that you want to make a batch bigger than your kettle volume) and just mash in enough grain for a full batch, say 4.5kg. The pot needs to be full to the brim for mashing, not a calculated volume and we'll sparge it. A 4kg grainbill should be OK in that slightly smaller pot though.

Mash: Doing this is easy, fill with water to about 3/4, raise to strike temp (desired mashing temp + 4C works for me), remove a couple of litres temporarily, put the bag in & add the grain, use the couple of litres of water to adjust the temp (so boil it for raising or just add cold for lowering), but at the end of it you want the pot full to the brim. Mash as per usual, I like fairly dry beers so I mash low and long, but well before the end of the mash, put on to boil about 1/3 of the volume of the pot of water, this will be used to sparge and will be just off the boil. Another smaller pot is useful to do this but a plastic bucket is fine too.
Sparge: Lift & drain the bag briefly, put the kettle on the heat for the boil, and slip the bag into the sparge pot/ bucket, open the bag up and stir it well. Lift after 15 minutes, drain thoroughly. Adding a pinch of citric acid to the sparge seems to help (but I know my source water is alkaline).
Boil: So when we lifted the bag it leaves the pot less than half full, not very much liquor, but it is quite concentrated (often around 1.080). We'll add the sparge liquor to the boil and if it is still strong (say 1.040), I'll actually re- sparge it. There may be too much sparge liquor, that's good because during the boil there will be evaporation losses, adding more sparge liquor will replace that which is lost. Make sure it all gets added before 10 minutes from the boil end, also increasing the heat when adding it gradually will mean the boil isn't paused by a big, cooler addition. Any surplus sparge goes into yeast starters.
Wort cooling: I often chill the kettle in the laundry sink with a couple of changes of cold water over a few hours, it is sensible to re-use some of the heated water for cleaning down. Once it is cooled to pitching temp, I'll pour it through a sieve into the fermenter, add the dilution water and yeast. Done. Minimising the amount of trub left in the kettle is probably the best way to ensure you're getting the best possible efficiency, I'll normally lose about a litre but again, use that for starters.

Suggest measuring the liquor density and volume and at each step of the way to see how it is progressing*, so first runnings, first sparge, second sparge, I'll also measure total pre- boil and of course post- boil SG. I'll dilute it at pitching, work out just how much by this formula:
Diluted Volume = Actual SG/ Target SG * Actual Volume
(SGs such as 1.050 expressed as 50)
Hopefully it is around a fermenter- full, you can also help things by choosing a sugar friendly style, eg. I use 10% of the grainbill as sugar in my ESBs, that's best added at pitching (dissolve it in hot water, use cold for the dilution, just keep it all sanitary).

Hops utilisation in the boil begins to suffer at >1.050, I'll increase it in subsequent batches if it is found wanting, initially I wouldn't be overly concerned though. 10% more hops per 0.010 over 1.050 is a rough rule of thumb.

BTW, if there's any concerns about whether this actually works, every week I do 20- 25L batches of ESB with a 4.6kg grain bill in my 19L stockpot on the kitchen stove.

* This method has lots of things to measure, but they're not really that important, just novel. The critical parameters are post- boil and target SGs, plus volume, the first sparge SG will help you decide if it needs redoing. The inwards volume measurements don't need to be precise, that's why I've used proportions like 1/3 and 3/4 etc.) and because we're diluting we have the scope to adjust as much or as little as need be to get to the target SG.

Sorry for the essay, hope this helps! :icon_cheers:
 
That's the one, 16.5 litres, not 17 ! cheeky buggers


how much yield can you get out of your set up? Bottled my first attempt yesterday, I got 10-1/2 750ml bottles, bit dissapointed its not even a fortnight's supply at one a night.

Think i need to look at doing overstrength boils and then diluting, or using partials. what do you do?

I'm now producing 24 x 750mL bottles with my 17L pot. Basically do as outlined above but replace as much volume as I can during the boil with boiled water from the jug (x 4). As my sparging step is not as rigourous as RdeVjun outlines above my efficiency suffers alot. So from a 4kg grain bill I get end up with ~ 1.042 after diluting into the fermenter up to my final volume.
This is about how my calcs go
Grain bill 4.0kg
Start water 13.2L
Mash volume 16.0L
Start of boil volume 13.2L
Top up water 5.0L (as much as possible during boil and rest into fermenter
End of boil volume 16.0L
End of chill volume 15.0L
Top Up water 3.0L
Trub 2.0L
Brew length 18.0L (24.00 bottles)

It can all be a bit of a performance to make all this happen. So now biting the bullet and I am investing in a 32L pot to get back to 'simple ' full boil set up

pb12
 
thats bloody good pb and RdeV, thanks, I will be heading in that direction for the next brew.

Getting temp control sorted in the mean time, have ordered one of those cheapy controllers from ebay, NZD48 delivered.

pb - where are you going for your big pot? i see some on trademe for about $100, but not sure re quality.

Hop utilistation:
Hops utilisation in the boil begins to suffer at >1.050, I'll increase it in subsequent batches if it is found wanting, initially I wouldn't be overly concerned though. 10% more hops per 0.010 over 1.050 is a rough rule of thumb.

So if SG at start of boil is 1.060, for example, I add 105 more hops than 'normal, if SG is 1.070 I add 20% more hops?

That seems easy enough.
 
pb - where are you going for your big pot? i see some on trademe for about $100, but not sure re quality.

Apparently the $100 Trademe pots are very thin. I'm not keen.
Looking at
http://www.southernhospitality.co.nz/categ...m-stockpot.html
http://www.blueribbon.co.nz/main/shop/items/61432.html
http://www.choice.co.nz/View.aspx?Product=6493

Southern Hospitality one is solid. Haven't seen the others.

Of course buying one of these bigger pots means it's not AG for less than 30 bucks anymore.............but the beer will still taste good.

pb12
 
That's not too bad pb12, efficiency isn't the be- all and end- all! If I run out of sparge during the long boils (two hours), I'll add boiling water too, in this situation the fuller that kettle is then the better IMO (i.e. lower concentration, helps minimise trub losses).
Hops utilisation can change with the variations in SG (i.e. when adding boiling water or sparge), but I've never really been that bothered by it, my ESB recipe (tomorrow will be batch #32) still has about 20IBU of bittering, 10IBU flavour and 2g/L late addition, which is roughly where it started, only once have I thought the bittering was crook, and then it was slightly too bitter anyway.

Nodrog, yes, IIRC that's right (from memory!). To be honest though, I don't think the overall effect is as bad as 10%, so be careful not to overdo it, in fact the first few batches I'd be happy to just ignore it as our largely- untrained palates probably aren't able to distinguish these small variations anyway.

FWIW, one reason I've stayed with BIABing in the 19L pot is simply that it works well enough for me, but I'm also quite familiar with the way it behaves and I know where the performance boundaries are plus it actually gives me the results I desire and it didn't cost me much dough at all. B)
 
Nodrog

Of course another way to increase capacity, especially if you already have another heat source........is too do side by side batches. Lets say 'Move To All Grain For Sixty Bucks'.
2 x 17L Pot
2 x Bags etc. all happening side by side.

It is something I've been considering but with 2nd pot, 2nd bag and, for me, another burner ($50), it is probably going to be $90 or so. Thus I might as well get a bigger pot. (The risk for me is my current burner will struggle to get the bigger pot to the boil)

pb12
 
[snip]
Mash: Doing this is easy, fill with water to about 3/4, raise to strike temp (desired mashing temp + 4C works for me), remove a couple of litres temporarily, put the bag in & add the grain, use the couple of litres of water to adjust the temp (so boil it for raising or just add cold for lowering), but at the end of it you want the pot full to the brim. Mash as per usual, I like fairly dry beers so I mash low and long, but well before the end of the mash, put on to boil about 1/3 of the volume of the pot of water, this will be used to sparge and will be just off the boil. Another smaller pot is useful to do this but a plastic bucket is fine too.

Sparge: Lift & drain the bag briefly, put the kettle on the heat for the boil, and slip the bag into the sparge pot/ bucket, open the bag up and stir it well. Lift after 15 minutes, drain thoroughly. Adding a pinch of citric acid to the sparge seems to help (but I know my source water is alkaline).
When I have tried this I have found the size of the second sparge pot/bucket still needs to be a reasonable size. I tried it with a 10L pot. The volume that the wet grain takes up in a 10L pot is alot, thus only 3L of sparge water before it overflowed, especially when jiggling it about tea bag style. Probably another 17L pot would be ideal.

Now I might investigate RdeVjun's method for a couple of batches before stumping up for the big pot. (cost $25 for a 2nd Warehouse 17l pot for sparging)

pb12

pb12
 
[snip]
Sparge: Lift & drain the bag briefly, put the kettle on the heat for the boil, and slip the bag into the sparge pot/ bucket, open the bag up and stir it well. Lift after 15 minutes, drain thoroughly.

Perhaps my reply in the post above could be worth re-considering. I tried 'dunk sparge', tea bag dunking style. It was a bit messy, hence my suggestion for a bigger sparge vessel.
When I re read RdeVjun's method I see how it could work just fine with say a 10L vessel.

Something like ..........
10L pot/bucket
Add 3L sparge water at just off boiling
Carefully add bag and wet grain
Open bag carefully.
Add as much additional sparge water to fill to brim.
Carefully stir
Lift an drain as per usual
If I could get 5L wort from this for boil top additions that would be about right for my 17L pot.

Addition cost $0, as I have a 10L stock pot.
Also, you do have time available at this stage as you are waiting for the main pot to come to the boil.

pb12
 
thats what I'll be doing next, I have a 10litre resene pail, well cleaned, will put the grain / bag into that, add as much hot water as possible and literally mash (with potato masher !). it has to be called mashing for a reason right?

Is there anything to be gained / lost by more vigorous 'mashing' rather than letting the grain sit still in water does anyone know?
 
Nodrog, at sparge a good stir is needed, go hard there, not much to lose.

pb12, that sounds fine, if you're only sparging with 3L and a large grain bill, probably best to do it twice but I suspect you'll get more sparge than that in the 10L vessel, probably 5L, so start boiling water for it early.
 
Tried my 2nd and 3rd BIAB AG on Sunday. One for a fullsize batch, one for a 9L.

The first one, we struggled with efficiency, because we were doing a 20L batch. I looked at the fullsize batch guide and decided a good sparge was needed for the larger batch.

With fullsized batch, I used thick rubber gloves squeezed it well and then some water at 78 degrees in a pasta strainer and rain the water (about 6L) through the grain in two lots, one about 4.5L for another major squeeze and then 1.5L to finish it out.

Compared to the first 20L we got more out of it - the hydrometer didn't read the reading until we diluted it down to 1050, so I'm happy with that - it was spot on the reading for the effiency I allowed for (65%).

I now own 2 19L pots (courtesy of a 11.98 special at big w), so I think the next time, I'll do half of the batch in each pot for the mash and then boil it - that way no dilution and probably even better efficiency.

The 9L batch - I think next time, I'll fill up the mash to finish at about 14L, because I found that I boiled down to about 8L and had to top it up.

Finally - nottingham yeast goes nuts - even with cooler weather.
 

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