More Friggin Infectionshad To Toss Out

[donburke]

thanks for replies fellas,
after boil is finished i put the lid on my kettle for the last 3 or 4 minutes of my boil.

i then stir with sterilised spoon to get my whirlpool going.
leave the whirlpool for 10 minutes then open the sterilised cube lid, put the sterilised hose onto the ball valve, run a cup full or two of boiling wort through the ball valve and hose into a container, toss that bit out, then put the hose into the cube ,turn ball valve on and cover the cube opening with a sterilised cloth to keep contaminants out, fill cube to brim, turn ball valve off, lift cube by the handle to make a bit more space in the top of the cube then top up with probably another 500 ml to get all air out,i then screw lid on and roll the cube on its sides etc,i then leave the cubes in the laundry to cool, then next day put into fermenter.

i did clean and sterilise the fermenter and cubes as usual before hand.
the hlt ,pump, and mash tun were all sterilised as usual.

i have done this for the 20 AG batches i have done.

Batz i use a product that we use at work in a butcher shop called bacban, its a sanitiser no rinse product, i have been using this for about 3 years.

fergi

i dont see anything glaringly wrong with your procedure

i still believe you have a small leak in the cube somewhere that has let some air in after it has cooled

i would have thought that the near boiling hot wort would have dealt with any nasties, and the problem has arisen after the wort has cooled

 

[eamonnfoley]

1) Since you have a pump - recirculate for 15-20 mins in last part of boil through your pump and hoses. This will sanitise your transfer equipment and you can effectively rule out the hot side.

2) Also take your kettle ball valve apart after each brew and soak overnight in cleaner.

3) Take a sample of your wort from the kettle post boil into a sanitised cup, put some foil on top with lacky-band straight away. This is a wort stability test. Come back in a couple of days and see if it still tastes/looks like unfermented wort - if yes, then you know the problem is in the cube or fermenter (i.e. the cold side).

4) Make sure your cube is completely full, and dont transfer to the cube at less than about 85C

5) Dont use any form of "cloth". Get some alfoil. And don't worry about sanitising the mash tun or boil kettle (wort is boiled). Also check your concentration / dilution on your sanitiser. If its an old bottle it may have lost its potency. Maybe try starsan or Iodophor.

 

[QldKev]

First double check the seals on the cubes. Remove the seal from the lid and clean underneath.
Also some people say it is a waste. But if I get infections in the cubes I chuck them. $15 for a new cube is easier than another lost batch. (same as fermentors)

I would also consider getting a new tap and hose, keep the other ones for spares.

Then get a different sanitizer. If starsan has a different active ingredient give it a spin, otherwise try the good old bleach and vinegar mix.

edit: I assume the cloth has been immersed in sanatiser prior to use, and you have used different cloths

Hope this helps

QldKev

 

[hando]

Enjoy the troubleshooting...

I agree get rid of the sanitised cloth. You could use foil, but I was thinking that nothing would get into the vessel when the air and steam is flowing out.

When I'm troubleshooting I only change one thing each time to see if that fixed the problem. If you change a whole heap of things then you'll never know which thing was the culprit. Doing this may cost a bit of $ in wasted brew, but could also save you $ if you're not replacing brew equipment and other consumables which you don't need to.

Good luck

 

[Ross]

Fergi,

Logically, the problem is with your cube, if it it's sealing properly, then crud trapped under the lid seal, in the the tap plug at the base, or up in the handle area, would be the most likely causes. If all look clean, I'd replace the cube.

Otherwise, the only other really suspect spot (though the pasteurisation time in the cube should eliminate) would be your ball valve from the kettle. If you are dismantling & cleaning it then ignore, but if you are only running sanitiser through it, this is not sufficient, they trap crud that is not removed by running liquid through.


Good luck in finding....

Cheers Ross

 

[doon]

By rolling cube on its sides to you mean just quickly once each side? I put my cube on its side with the lid and leave like that for a few hours

 

[Snow]

Are you using yeast starters or dry yeast? Might be an issue there.

Cheers - Snow

 

[fergi]

thanks guys for the replies,
the cubes were brand new, never had wort in them,

i roll the cubes around then leave them on side for about 5 minutes each side, always have done it this way,

will use alfoil for covering the hole in future.

i actually pulled all my ball valves apart before hand ross and cleaned them thoroughly.

DB i dont think the cube is leaking air in as i would imagine once the cube began to swell up like a soccer ball the pressure would squeeze the wort out of the lid or bung.

cheers fergi

 

[Ross]

DB i dont think the cube is leaking air in as i would imagine once the cube began to swell up like a soccer ball the pressure would squeeze the wort out of the lid or bung.

cheers fergi

Fergi,

If they are new cubes I'd put money on it being a poorly sealed cube that's sucked in bad air, there really is nothing else it could be looking at your regime.

It wouldn't necessarily leak once cooled & under postive pressure, the hot cubes are quite soft & could easily have allowed air in before cooling & sealing.
Looks like you might have a bit of wild yeast floating around your property at present.

Cheers Ross

 

[mfeighan]

1) Since you have a pump - recirculate for 15-20 mins in last part of boil through your pump and hoses. This will sanitise your transfer equipment and you can effectively rule out the hot side.

i would definitely add that to your regime so you dont have to worry about any nasties that could be there in the valve/pump

 

[DKS]

Funny how some things stick in your mind. After reading your posts one thing you said kept recurring to me for days after. It was the little comment that you lifted the cube handle to get a little extra wort in there. Just possible that this is sucking in some nasty little buggers.
Ive had my share of infections and worked out that the smallest exposure to air at the wrong time can be devistating to a brew.
There are a few references Ive read to the small drop in temp on the discharge side of a ball valve from the kettle not being adequit to sanitise, so Im never that confident about NC cubes, although thats what I do.
By known practice, you should be OK into the cube if your sani rageme is what you said. That sucking in by lifting the handle is sticking in my claw still.

more to that .... Around my way I try not to brew around September / October. Recurring infections reported by a few local brewers each year at the same time. Pollen, wind who knows its just there each year.

This is a real brainteaser, just thought Ide add my pennies worth and will follow thread with interest.Good luck.
Daz

 

[eamonnfoley]

Funny how some things stick in your mind. After reading your posts one thing you said kept recurring to me for days after. It was the little comment that you lifted the cube handle to get a little extra wort in there. Just possible that this is sucking in some nasty little buggers.
Ive had my share of infections and worked out that the smallest exposure to air at the wrong time can be devistating to a brew.
There are a few references Ive read to the small drop in temp on the discharge side of a ball valve from the kettle not being adequit to sanitise, so Im never that confident about NC cubes, although thats what I do.
By known practice, you should be OK into the cube if your sani rageme is what you said. That sucking in by lifting the handle is sticking in my claw still.

more to that .... Around my way I try not to brew around September / October. Recurring infections reported by a few local brewers each year at the same time. Pollen, wind who knows its just there each year.

This is a real brainteaser, just thought Ide add my pennies worth and will follow thread with interest.Good luck.
Daz

Thats why I like starsan. When you transfer to a fermenter (or cube in this case), there is a huge head of foam that sits above the wort. This should help kill any airborne wild yeast that might drift into your fermenter at or shortly after transfer.

 

[TBird]

Fergi,

If they are new cubes I'd put money on it being a poorly sealed cube that's sucked in bad air, there really is nothing else it could be looking at your regime.

It wouldn't necessarily leak once cooled & under postive pressure, the hot cubes are quite soft & could easily have allowed air in before cooling & sealing.
Looks like you might have a bit of wild yeast floating around your property at present.

Cheers Ross

I'd back Ross on this one being the poorly sealed cube

 

[DKS]

Thats why I like starsan. When you transfer to a fermenter (or cube in this case), there is a huge head of foam that sits above the wort. This should help kill any airborne wild yeast that might drift into your fermenter at or shortly after transfer.

One would like to think so foles but they're sneaky little pricks and they're out to getcha.
Daz

 

[kelbygreen]

I have had a cube that had all the air squeezed out the next morning it was back to original shape and had a pocket of air (prob 2lts of liquid worth) on the top. So the lid obviously didnt seal, I squeezed the air back out and the cube had a bump on where the mold was so I trimmed that off and sealed it up. I pitched it that day but it tasted the same as the other cube that didnt let air in. Just lucky I guess.

But people do get trouble around here to when the wineries start brewing.

 

[mje1980]

I totally empathise with you!!. I had a bad run with infections. Drove me nuts. I ended up replacing the valve on my kettle ( had a nasty split i didn't see ), got some silicon hose, new cubes etc. I still use the old cubes, after a thorough sod perc soak, then a bleach + vinegar soak, then sod perc again + iodophor haha. Looks like im all good now thankfully.

Check everything twice , replace if not costly, and don't give up!!!

 

[Maheel]

i use a product that we use at work in a butcher shop called bacban, its a sanitiser no rinse product, i have been using this for about 3 years.

any-chance that the BACBAN is past it's use by date or something or maybe a chance an "error" was made at the butcher shop if your topping up from their larger bottle of the stuff ?

just thought it was worth a mebtion

 

[fergi]

Fergi,

If they are new cubes I'd put money on it being a poorly sealed cube that's sucked in bad air, there really is nothing else it could be looking at your regime.

It wouldn't necessarily leak once cooled & under postive pressure, the hot cubes are quite soft & could easily have allowed air in before cooling & sealing.
Looks like you might have a bit of wild yeast floating around your property at present.

Cheers Ross

yes i think it has to be a cube problem ROSS,
i live in the country so we have plenty of wild everything blowing around here.

one thing is when i filled the cubes i put them straight into my laundry to cool. always done this with no problems.
fergi

 

[Wimmig]

I haven't had any troubles with leaving cubes overnight, days, or a few weeks before pitching. I find the foaming action of starsan pushing out of the cube, then filling the cube until it flows over leaves little room for anything to interfer with.

 

[fergi]

i just want to thank all you guys that have taken the time to post an answer,
they are all worthwhile considerations and i will be triple checking everything next week before i brew my next batch.

i will also implement a couple of ideas you have thrown up.

i will also put the hot cubes after i fill them with wort, into a large clear plastic bag that i will spray with sanitiser inside and seal up the bag until i am ready to pitch into a fermenter. this way if the new cubes suck in air it should be clean sanitised air.

hope my next batch is okay.
will keep this thread informed, if you dont hear anything then i have probably shot myself.

fergi