Melbourne (vic) Brewers

[NRB]

I'm also a member of Melbourne Brewers and recommend any keen brewer join up if they're out that side of town.

BB: what sort of legal issues would there be around home brew? We all take beers to meetings... sometimes there's a gold coin donation for a glass to enable sampling from kegs that have been brought along, but other than that, no money is paid for drinking. It's completely legal to brew beer and share it amongst friends.

 

[Wortgames]

There are all sorts of legal issues around beer NRB - basically, any mention of money and alcoholic beverages in the same sentence and the powers that be will be keen to see that the appropriate licenses are held.

Gold coin donations are a no-no, it doesn't matter how you try to package it or whether there is any profit involved, if money or anything else is exchanged for beer (home brewed or commercial) without a liquor license then a law has been broken.

Obviously certain things are petty enough go under the radar, but that doesn't mean they are legal.

 

[warrenlw63]

There are all sorts of legal issues around beer NRB - basically, any mention of money and alcoholic beverages in the same sentence and the powers that be will be keen to see that the appropriate licenses are held.

Gold coin donations are a no-no, it doesn't matter how you try to package it or whether there is any profit involved, if money is exchanged for beer (home brewed or commercial) without a liquor license then a law has been broken.

Obviously certain things are petty enough go under the radar, but that doesn't mean they are legal.

WG

I once saw a stall at local market. The chap was selling bootlegged video games which are obviously illeagal to sell. He had a clever idea. Some very cheap pens.

The sign said;

Buy one of these pens for $15 and receive a "free" video game.

Just put the gold coin donation down for the beer snacks

Warren -

 

[Lukes]

I had a licence at one time of my life but never again.

Have an ABN
Pay the licence commision (it was under $100 but it was only for the weekend).
Address all the stuff like security, toilets, blah, blah, (the list went on).
Get council approval (knox council were very helpfull) but this can be the biggest P.I.T.A. if they don't like your idea's
Get police approval (again Knox cops came and checked me out) and with a clean slate it was no problem.
Have these two pass on the approval paperwork to the Commision.
Wait to get approval (don't hold your breath).
Download and print your licence.


To brew your own and you need the whole council food thing approved and our friends at the ATO want All Your Money before you even begin.

Luke

 

[Wortgames]

Buy one of these pens for $15 and receive a "free" video game.

Just put the gold coin donation down for the beer snacks

The trouble with that is that people think they've found the holy grail, the clever loophole that somehow renders them untouchable by a foolish beaurocracy. It just doesn't work that way - they are the oldest tricks in the book and totally illegal (many are even mentioned in the very laws they try to circumvent). Sadly there are few situations where you can walk away unharassed on technicalities like that.

In the UK where the weekend licensing hours were so messed up, we used to have all sorts of pubs and clubs that would try the following tricks:

Selling raffle tickets where 'everyone wins a prize' (a beer);
Selling a crappy overpriced plate of food on entry and claiming they are a restaurant (and therefore entitled to more relaxed licensing hours);
Claiming the beer was a free gift but you were hiring their glassware etc etc etc.

As far as I know they all eventually got shut down and prosecuted, because the law looked at the end result and how the 'reasonable man' saw it, not how the perpetrator wanted to portray it.

I'm not a legal expert here, but my gut tells me to tread carefully on this subject. The trouble is that the people who have the liquor licences can be very persuasive with the offices that control the licenses, and if a licensee is getting upset by a potential threat (ie, people drinking elsewhere and not in their venues) then things can get a bit ugly. I'm sure it is fine to have club money going into buying beers for members, but when you start to talk about 'entry fees' or 'donations' at events where alcohol is being served the powers-that-be can see through it all like glass, and they are probably just best left unmentioned.

There's also the 'responsible service' issue, ie if someone gets themselves in trouble through excess alcohol consumption it can all get a bit messy as to who is liable. It's a miserable state of affairs that it can come to that, but it's a factor to consider if you plan on making alcohol available to people that aren't close friends.

 

[brettprevans]

being a semi-legal expert (having studies law and work regulary with legislation), I can tell you now that 'donation's only work if the organisation has a charitable status. a beer club (generally not even a registerd entity but sometimes a non-incorporated entity) has no charitable staus. I coud go into heaps of detail about the best ways for clubs to operate, but thats for the individual clubs to work out or get advice on.

As already said in prev posts. dont talk o donations, payments etc. just have an unwritten understanding of leaving some money in a particular place (after all its your money and you can leave it laying around in public if you want), and if it dissapears all well and good . of course you only have to worry about that sort of stuff if your a large club or you piss a member off and they are the type who goes prattling off to the govt.

by the way. i do give free legal advice (just chit chat you understand, no legaly binding info ). But I will need a wet beverage while Im there giving you advice. and im not adverse to the odd beer.

If you are really keen you can generall gleen what you need of your own states business registry website and a basic law book.

 

[NRB]

Ok, just to clear things up - I said "sometimes" there was a "donation". I should rephrase and say there "was once or twice" an ice-cream container that some people would throw a coin into if they felt the desire. I haven't seen said ice cream container used in this manner for over 12 months and is only used to collect raffle entries.

God help us if we need to have a permit to run our own mini raffle where no profit is made. Entries cover the cost of the prizes at best.

 

[Wortgames]

God help us if we need to have a permit to run our own mini raffle where no profit is made. Entries cover the cost of the prizes at best.

I totally agree - it's just that when one of the govt's pet revenue raisers (like alcohol) is involved it gets more attention than it deserves.


We are all free to modify our earlier posts BTW

 

[gazz78]

Did anyone go to 3 Ravens last night ? Got called into work so had to miss it

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I've just found myself reading the last page or so of posts with a great deal of interest.

I know not much about liquor licensing or the law, but one thing I can tell you with absolute certainty is that it does not matter what you think the law is or should be. The only thing that matters is what the law is, and that is why we have so many lawyers driving expensive cars. If you cannot afford to help James McLawyer buy his next Ferrari, err on the side of caution, because you don't have a lot of say in what the law is.

Having said that, I don't see any reason why a bunch of people cannot get together and enjoy a few beers they made without money changing hands and have a raffle for (say) a Wyeast packet or a brumby tap.

You can get away with a lot more if you stay within the law at all times... <_<

 

[chris.taylor.98]

I got to 3 Raven's last night gazz

A good time had by all.

Marcus was very accommodating. Seems that he would like to do more of these events too for any more clubs out there who are interested.

With virtual no raffles .. and even if there was a raffle it wasn't real money changing hands it was very cleverly disguised real money .. and no it wasn't counterfeited .. shit better stop before I get the whole club outlawed :blink:

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

I'm also a member of Melbourne Brewers and recommend any keen brewer join up if they're out that side of town.

BB: what sort of legal issues would there be around home brew? We all take beers to meetings... sometimes there's a gold coin donation for a glass to enable sampling from kegs that have been brought along, but other than that, no money is paid for drinking. It's completely legal to brew beer and share it amongst friends.

I'm looking into opening a Lounge somewhere in the Dandenong Ranges. Micro Brews, Local fine wines, Signature cocktails and tappas (excellent finger foods). I'd be more than happy to host a meeting if I get the place open, I will just need to see if there are any issues having alcohol served in a licensed premises. I don't know the legalities of it yet, as home brew is for personal consumption, etc.

BB

 

[Adzmax]

Here I go digging up old threads again but I'll have to make sure I pop down to the next Melbourne Brewers meeting! It's literally walking distance from my place. I look forward to meeting some of you and hopefully getting some advise on going AG, I'm looking to get a setup at home at the moment so I'm keep to see what others recommend

 

[NRB]

I hope you do come along Adzmax, you'll embrace the hobby a little harder after meeting with us all!

 

[lucas]

I need to get along to another meeting soon. I've been forgetting every month since christmas

 

[Adzmax]

I hope you do come along Adzmax, you'll embrace the hobby a little harder after meeting with us all!

Definitely, a friend and myself, both local brewers are keen to pop down. Looking forward to it!

This could be dangerous though, my collection of beer and equipment is expanding very rapidly

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

Meeting dates/times are now posted on the homepage of their newly redesigned website:
The Melbourne Brewers

Cheers,
BB

 

[NRB]

Wow, I like the new look. I wonder who's responsible for that?! h34r:

 

[Adzmax]

Yeah looks good huh!

 

[Belgrave Brewer]