Mashing Overnight

[Hopsta]

mmm rottenbirdspew ale....

 

[Trough Lolly]

Just bringing an old topic out of semi-retirement...

I'm gonna have a go at my first overnight mash tonight. It's a simple pils with Weyermann Pilsener malt and some Weyermann Caramunich II - Hallertau and Hersbrucker hopped. I'll mash in around 68C and sit the esky on the kitchen bench, on top of the heater pad I used to use with my fermenter back in the bad old days when I fermented everything at 26C :blink: !!

Hopefully the heater pad will help offset the temp drop in the esky mashtun overnight and at least I won't yell at the kids for waking up Dad at 5:30am on a Sunday morning! I'll wrap a heavy towel or two over the top and sides of the mashtun.

I'll ferment with Wyeast 2124 which I've been building up over the last few days.

Will report back tomorrow on how it went.

Cheers,
Rowan

 

[Trough Lolly]

Well, it's all done and in the lager fridge.

The mash went well - no funky smells and a quick taste of the mash was fine - no lactic infection detected but plenty of malty brew potential present. Dunno whether it was me or not, but the brew seemed to smell richer and sparged a lot easier after an 8 hour mash...

Mashed in at 66C and a reading in the morning was 48C - a bit low but I'm sure I got good conversion.

Promash told me I'd get an SG of 1.050 and ended up with 1.052 which converted to just on 80%...so I'm happy!

And finishing brewday at 11:30 in the morning means more beers in the arvo! Beaudy....

TL

 

[yardy]

Well, it's all done and in the lager fridge.

The mash went well - no funky smells and a quick taste of the mash was fine - no lactic infection detected but plenty of malty brew potential present.

[post="116491"][/post]​

hey TL,

no AG yet but content with the partials i've been putting down,

A couple of things if you don't mind,

how do you detect a Lactic Infection and what lt/kg ratio do you use ?

cheers

yardy

 

[Trough Lolly]

G'day Yardy,
There's a risk that overextending the mash and dropping mash temps below 50C will encourage the growth of Lactobacillus and other bacteria. Lactobacillus is a major component of soured mashes and some swear by it when they make Guinness Stout clones when they want an acidic "tang" to the flavour profile.

I didn't notice any of the "tang" in my mash and the grains smelt fine after the sparge...

As for litres per kilo, I tend to stick around the 2.3 litres per kilo ratio when I mash in - it works fine for me....The best article I've ever read on mashing is on the Pensans website - click here if you want to read it...

Cheers,
TL

 

[yardy]

G'day Yardy,
There's a risk that overextending the mash and dropping mash temps below 50C will encourage the growth of Lactobacillus and other bacteria. Lactobacillus is a major component of soured mashes and some swear by it when they make Guinness Stout clones when they want an acidic "tang" to the flavour profile.

I didn't notice any of the "tang" in my mash and the grains smelt fine after the sparge...

As for litres per kilo, I tend to stick around the 2.3 litres per kilo ratio when I mash in - it works fine for me....The best article I've ever read on mashing is on the Pensans website - click here if you want to read it...

Cheers,
TL

[post="116512"][/post]​

thanks TL,

i appreciate the advice

cheers

yardy

 

[johnno]

In the interests of saving some time in the morning and of course furthering the scientific study of beer, I have just mashed in and intend to do at least a 12 hour overnight mash.

Very basic grain bill.

5.50 kg Powells Pilsner (Powells Malts) (3.0 EBC) Grain 91.4 %
0.30 kg Powells Wheat (Powells Malts) (2.0 EBC) Grain 5.0 %
0.22 kg Powells Caramalt (Powells Malt) (22.0 EBC) Grain 3.7 %


Hopefully will report back tomorrow with good news.

cheers
johnno

 

[johnno]

Just finished My overnight mashbrew.

Mashed in last night at 8 pm.

Checked temp just after 8 this morning and it was at 54C. It smelt fine and the wort tasted fine as well. The only difference i could see was that the mash was a dark geyish colour. Off to the shops I went.

Came back and quickly heated water.
Started collecting the runnings at 9.30. The runnings were probably a bit more cloudy than usual.
No difference from what normally happens, the brew went ahead fine.
By the time i chilled into the fermenter the wort looked as clear as other times.

All in all a not bad method.
Depending on the outcome of the brew I may be doing this a bit more in the future.

This combined with the no chiller method and the No Brew method can only make getting beer easier than ever.

cheers
johnno

 

[yardy]

excellent news for the 'time challenged' brewer.

cheers
yard

 

[bindi]

I will try this also This week with a simple recipe overnight.
3kg Pilsner
3kg Munich
550g Wheat
150 Carra

 

[T.D.]

I think this is interesting johnno. I'd be interested to hear what your efficiency was. I've heard that step mashes are a good way to improve the efficiency of Powells malt, and by letting the mash slowly cool from mid-high 60's to mid 50's I guess that's sort of like a step mash. That leads me to my question:

Is there a scientific reason why people tend to start at low temps and increase them when doing a step mash. I wonder because surely its easier to add cold water than hot water to a mash (filling from the tap vs going to the trouble of heating it etc). Could you consider an overnight mash that starts at 67-ish and ends at 55 a "step mash", or does it not work that way?

Cheers :beer:

 

[Trough Lolly]

I think this is interesting johnno. I'd be interested to hear what your efficiency was. I've heard that step mashes are a good way to improve the efficiency of Powells malt, and by letting the mash slowly cool from mid-high 60's to mid 50's I guess that's sort of like a step mash. That leads me to my question:

Is there a scientific reason why people tend to start at low temps and increase them when doing a step mash. I wonder because surely its easier to add cold water than hot water to a mash (filling from the tap vs going to the trouble of heating it etc). Could you consider an overnight mash that starts at 67-ish and ends at 55 a "step mash", or does it not work that way?

Cheers :beer:

[post="126300"][/post]​

G'day T.D. - you pose an interesting question, that deserves a response!
There's a good reason why mash temps are raised and not lowered - it's all about denaturing enzymes. Certain enzymes are denatured (killed) at higher temps and once they're gone, they're gone. I was going to rabbit on about this at length, but have a read of this reasonably good summary from John Palmer.
Here's the link...
Cheers,
TL

 

[T.D.]

Thanks TL, that explains it perfectly. It appears an overnight mash cannot be considered a step mash then...

Thanks for the clarification :beer:

 

[johnno]

I'd be interested to hear what your efficiency was. Cheers :beer:

[post="126300"][/post]​

Hi TD,
It did not make any difference to the final efficiency.
I too wondered about that while it was mashing. Just got the standard 60% efficiency I normally get with a single infusion using Powells.

cheers
johnno

 

[T.D.]

Thanks johnno, good info to know. :beer:

 

[Jim - Perth]

Sorry to sideline a bit but following on from TL's point & Palmer's comments, it would appear that when mashing, no harm would come from, in fact it may be beneficial, to add the water cold to the grist & then slowly bring the temp. up to around 68deg.
I have previously always heated the water to around 73deg. & then added it to the grist. Sounds like I would be better off with former approach.

 

[Ross]

I might be forced into a boil tomorrow (still hoping for tonight).

Mashed in at 7am - ran some non-rinse through my kettle to sterilise & SHOCK, HORROR, drip, drip, drip, from under the kettle. Took me 2hrs to dismantle the frame work (mine works on a hoist mechanism), to discover the brass fitting in the bottom of the kettle which had been silver soldered to the S/S kettle had given way . The kettle is now at a S/S fabricating shop, having the brass fitting exchanged for S/S & welded properly - Guess I'm lucky I discovered before the wort went in. Looks like being a minimum 12hr mash & possibly 24hr.

S**t happens...

Cheers Ross

 

[warrenlw63]

Nearly as importantly Ross, I may have mis-read or it could even be a stupid question. Why do you sterilise your kettle? :blink:

Warren -

 

[Ross]

Nearly as importantly Ross, I may have mis-read or it could even be a stupid question. Why do you sterilise your kettle? :blink:

Warren -

[post="126769"][/post]​

Warren,

Not so much the kettle, as the fittings that come off it, that are not subjected to the boil. Also makes sure that no cocky's or mud wasps have plugged up any of the pipes :unsure: . Nearly didn't bother this time, as I've just knocked up a "Jamil" style wort recirculator/whirlpooler to a small DC march pump, was just going to run this for 10 mins at end of boil, lucky heh ...

Guess I'll be trialling my torch light by the time my kettle arrives back.

cheers Ross

 

[Trough Lolly]

Sorry to sideline a bit but following on from TL's point & Palmer's comments, it would appear that when mashing, no harm would come from, in fact it may be beneficial, to add the water cold to the grist & then slowly bring the temp. up to around 68deg.
I have previously always heated the water to around 73deg. & then added it to the grist. Sounds like I would be better off with former approach.

[post="126491"][/post]​

Hi Jim,
By all means, join in!!
The concept of mashing from cold is worth further consideration - I'm thinking about doing this with a HERMS and it kicks off at around 30C and goes up to saccharification temps from there...I see a real benefit in having an auto protein rest with this technique, but the downside is a potentially long mash since the HERMS will only raise the temp a degree or two per minute - note, I have a Rubbermaid 10 Gal cooler that doesn't like having a burner under it and I'd need a divorce lawyer if I even hinted at an immersion element!! But then again, whilst the mash duration may be long, our malts nowadays are very well modified and most of the starch conversion is done and dusted within 30 minutes or sooner.
From my reading on starch conversion rates, you can plunge the grist into 70C plus mash liquor, or vice versa without denaturing the enzymes instantly. From memory, it takes at least a few mins (don't have the tech paper handy) for the conversion to kick off chemically, in which time you could easily bring the mashtemp down with cold tap water and a jug, if necessary.

Edit: removed the kettle question as Ross had already answered!!

Cheers,
TL