Mashing Overnight
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Borret,
You are right I have no basis for this claim other than I have noticed that thin mashes lose more heat than thick mashes.
Maybe the grain is in itself an better insulator of heat?
You can simply test this yourself with a bowl of water and a bowl of mashed grain on your sink. The bowl of water will be cold well before the bowl of mashed grain.
cheers
Darren
You are right I have no basis for this claim other than I have noticed that thin mashes lose more heat than thick mashes.
Maybe the grain is in itself an better insulator of heat?
You can simply test this yourself with a bowl of water and a bowl of mashed grain on your sink. The bowl of water will be cold well before the bowl of mashed grain.
cheers
Darren
Thought about this again as i was taking piss!
Ever missed you sacc. temp amd tried to raise the temp with heat. Its a damn site harder to raise the temps of a mash than water. Does sugar boil at lower temps than water? I would rather have boiling water on my skin than boiling sugar (actually rather have neither)
cheers
Darren
Ever missed you sacc. temp amd tried to raise the temp with heat. Its a damn site harder to raise the temps of a mash than water. Does sugar boil at lower temps than water? I would rather have boiling water on my skin than boiling sugar (actually rather have neither)
cheers
Darren
Borret
Crazy Eye's Brewery
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Darren said:
Interesting observation.
Have you actually done the bowl of water test? If this is so I would put it down to the waters ability to create convection currents as cooling and hence have a more dynamic cooling. The mash wouldn't allow this and would be sort of self insultaing in that regard. I don't know if this would be the case between a thick and thin mash though. I would have though that once grain was saturated and surrounded by fluid it would have similar thermal mass to water. The sugar concentration in the mash may affect it though I surpose and this would be different in a thick/thin mash.
I am not trying to pick holes in your theory, on the contary I am just interested as to why it would be so.
Borret
Borret,
Being a scientist i do all sorts of crazy experiments. So yes, I have done the bowl test. Its a bit like biting into pizza and getting a piece of tomato on your lip. You know it shouldn't be hotter than the rest of the pizza but it is and seems to burns worse. It must be because it holds the heat better.
I don't have insulated mash system (kegs). I used to insulate my mash tun with camp mattresses but eventually managed to burn them when I forgot to remove them before turning on the boiler (long story).
I know now that a thin mash will drop temp real quick compared to thick mash.
(Forgive typing, I've had a few)
cheers
Darren
Being a scientist i do all sorts of crazy experiments. So yes, I have done the bowl test. Its a bit like biting into pizza and getting a piece of tomato on your lip. You know it shouldn't be hotter than the rest of the pizza but it is and seems to burns worse. It must be because it holds the heat better.
I don't have insulated mash system (kegs). I used to insulate my mash tun with camp mattresses but eventually managed to burn them when I forgot to remove them before turning on the boiler (long story).
I know now that a thin mash will drop temp real quick compared to thick mash.
(Forgive typing, I've had a few)
cheers
Darren
ozbrewer
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Ok so there are a lot of oppinions and bla bla bla about this subject......I wonder howmany posters have actually done an overnight mash, and how many are recanting information from other web sites?
I have done many overnighters, and have had a huge sucess with it. The only time i have problems is when mashing wheat overnight, not a good thing, it goes very sour very quick.
How i do it
1. MAsh in , Its been suggested that an initial acid rest is good, but im not to sure it makes any differance?. But i make sure i mash in with a 3:1 ratio, and fill the bulk of the tun with rice hulls.
2. In the morning, I run off the wort, bring it to 85 deg c and return it to the mash tun, then fly sparge
ITs very easy, and never realy had a problem
A few people have wondered about boiling the runoff and denaturing the enzimes?...there is no differance between doing it in the morning than when you mash out when you normally would. the reason for raising the temp is to make the wort more viscose, as i think some one allready said.
I have done many overnighters, and have had a huge sucess with it. The only time i have problems is when mashing wheat overnight, not a good thing, it goes very sour very quick.
How i do it
1. MAsh in , Its been suggested that an initial acid rest is good, but im not to sure it makes any differance?. But i make sure i mash in with a 3:1 ratio, and fill the bulk of the tun with rice hulls.
2. In the morning, I run off the wort, bring it to 85 deg c and return it to the mash tun, then fly sparge
ITs very easy, and never realy had a problem
A few people have wondered about boiling the runoff and denaturing the enzimes?...there is no differance between doing it in the morning than when you mash out when you normally would. the reason for raising the temp is to make the wort more viscose, as i think some one allready said.
Thanks Ozbrewer, pretty much planning on what you say (not the acid rest) and adding an extra blanket to keep it warm. Hoping to mash this week.
For what it is worth I will post back with how the mash goes and what the final product ends up like.
For what it is worth I will post back with how the mash goes and what the final product ends up like.
Oz,
I have done quite a few overnight mashes(probably 20). First one was from around 10.00pm until 8.00 am. No problems.
I then started to increase the time of the mash. As the time increased the mash began to smell. The one I did for about 14 hours smelled strongly of butyric acic. It didn't boil-off or fade in the fermenter. Even now two years after that mash it still has the "vomit" smell. The was no wheat in the grist.
So, sure mash overnight. Don't leave it for too long.
cheers
Darren
I have done quite a few overnight mashes(probably 20). First one was from around 10.00pm until 8.00 am. No problems.
I then started to increase the time of the mash. As the time increased the mash began to smell. The one I did for about 14 hours smelled strongly of butyric acic. It didn't boil-off or fade in the fermenter. Even now two years after that mash it still has the "vomit" smell. The was no wheat in the grist.
So, sure mash overnight. Don't leave it for too long.
cheers
Darren
Vlad the Pale Aler
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I have done this before. roughly here
Usually batch sparging and letting the second infusion slowly drain overnight into a clean, sealed fermenter. Next night transfer to the kettle and boil as usual leaving a fair bit of crap in the fermenter.
I also have reached very high mash efficiencies using this method, refered to as 'blinking' by Randy Mosher.
You may find that you could end up with more wort than you calculated for.
Usually batch sparging and letting the second infusion slowly drain overnight into a clean, sealed fermenter. Next night transfer to the kettle and boil as usual leaving a fair bit of crap in the fermenter.
I also have reached very high mash efficiencies using this method, refered to as 'blinking' by Randy Mosher.
You may find that you could end up with more wort than you calculated for.
Well I have tried this and kegged it today, should be on tap in the next two weeks for a work do.
Mashed in at about 7:30am at 69degC (was aiming for 68 but close enuf), water to grain ratio was 3L/kg. When I got home at about 6pm (stuck at work on this day of all days!) the mash had dropped about 13degC to 56degC which I didn't think was too bad. I wrapped the mashtun in a blanket to help it out.
Drained the mash tun into the boiler, then topped up with sparge water (80degC), stirred and spagred as normal to get my pre-boil 27L. Ended up with 88% eff which is a bit higher than usual.
No taste of larks vommit
This was an APA, with WY1272.
Fermented primary for 1 week, secondary with gelatine (it is going to be drunk young so I want to help it clear) for 1 week. Keggged today. OG = 1.054 FG = 1.014 which is about my usual attenuation for this beer and yeast.
On racking and kegging the samples tasted great so it looks to be a success for me. Beer will be drunk in two weeks so I will post back to confirm it was fine. Anyway I know others already do this but this was my first crack at it and I would recommend it to those who may be challenged for w/end time. I wouldn't say it saves you any time compared to a usual brew but it was convenient.
Thanks for the advise from all.
<insert crappy graph>
Mashed in at about 7:30am at 69degC (was aiming for 68 but close enuf), water to grain ratio was 3L/kg. When I got home at about 6pm (stuck at work on this day of all days!) the mash had dropped about 13degC to 56degC which I didn't think was too bad. I wrapped the mashtun in a blanket to help it out.
Drained the mash tun into the boiler, then topped up with sparge water (80degC), stirred and spagred as normal to get my pre-boil 27L. Ended up with 88% eff which is a bit higher than usual.
No taste of larks vommit
This was an APA, with WY1272.Fermented primary for 1 week, secondary with gelatine (it is going to be drunk young so I want to help it clear) for 1 week. Keggged today. OG = 1.054 FG = 1.014 which is about my usual attenuation for this beer and yeast.
On racking and kegging the samples tasted great so it looks to be a success for me. Beer will be drunk in two weeks so I will post back to confirm it was fine. Anyway I know others already do this but this was my first crack at it and I would recommend it to those who may be challenged for w/end time. I wouldn't say it saves you any time compared to a usual brew but it was convenient.
Thanks for the advise from all.
<insert crappy graph>
Mashed in at about 7:30am at 69degC
No taste of larks vommit This was an APA, with WY1272.
Hi Jason,
What was the total time of your mash?
If you get larks vomit it will be very obvious before you ferment.
Actually I did't find the butyric acid smell all that offensive. Almost sweet.
D
No taste of larks vommit
This was an APA, with WY1272.Hi Jason,
What was the total time of your mash?
If you get larks vomit it will be very obvious before you ferment.
Actually I did't find the butyric acid smell all that offensive. Almost sweet.
D
Darren said:
10.5 hours so not extreme but very practical in terms of my work day or if I was to try it overnight.
I would still prefer to brew in one day as I normally do however this seems a good alternative if I can't get the time.
Well I sampled a pint last night and can now say that this beer is fine. My only criticism is that I should have added a few more hops at flameout but that is a recipe issue nothing to do with the mash.
As far as APAs go this one is as good as any I have brewed, it finishes nice and crisp which could be either due to the long mash making it more fermentable or the fact that I used a new smack pack and had a nice big healthy starter (my moneys on the second one). Beer was very bright as well after just two weeks in the keg.
Anyway, I will be doing this again as I need. The whole keg is set to be consumed today so I will be full of it tonight.
As far as APAs go this one is as good as any I have brewed, it finishes nice and crisp which could be either due to the long mash making it more fermentable or the fact that I used a new smack pack and had a nice big healthy starter (my moneys on the second one). Beer was very bright as well after just two weeks in the keg.
Anyway, I will be doing this again as I need. The whole keg is set to be consumed today so I will be full of it tonight.
