Mangrove Jack Craft Series Yeasts
- Thread starter sp0rk
- Start date
Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
As posted in my other thread:technobabble66 said:
A quick update:
I faffed around for a while getting a mini-starter going to then do a FF test using left-over dried kit yeast. This seemed to drop the SG a few points - down to maybe SG=1.018-20.
So i then prep'd a large starter of the same kit yeast, only to discover as i put it into my FV fridge overnight to fire up, that there seemed to be some kind of krausen activity on the top of the FV again - basically some froth over 30% of the top. It looked like the original yeast may've been kicking back into activity. So i checked the SG this morning - it's down to ~SG=1.016-7 !!
That's ~75% attenuation, for the record.
Buggered if i know what happened - i can only assume that the little drop in temp on the 3rd or 4th day stalled the yeast. It's now been sitting ~20°C for the last 3 weeks, aside from another slow drop to 17°C over 4 days about 1 week after the initial stalling. So at some point recently, it's decided to wake up again. Fwiw, no stirring occurred, so it's either time or temp that must've been the key to it waking up.
...
I seem to recall reading Danstar Windsor was temperamental to temp drops and could stall fairly easily. Maybe this MJ Dark Ale is similar.
At least the hydrometer sample is tasting pretty awesome!
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
Final update:
It continued to ferment out to FG=1.012. After the yeast had fired back up again, i kept the temp ~20-22°C and the yeast happily continued munching away.
Which for the Old Ale recipe is annoyingly several points below where it needed to finish.
To try to cater for these results in my recipe spreadsheet (thanks ianh !) i nominated 75% attenuation and dropped the mash temp down to 63°C. This hit all the figures i'd achieved with this brew.
I went the option of manipulating the mash temp because i have doubts that the MJ Dark Ale would attenuate much more than that - time will tell with other people's results.
Also, the mashing process i did basically went all to plan (55/67/72/78 for 5/60/20/2) up to the post-mashout recirculation. I hit 78°C for 2 mins, then pulled the bag, dropped it into a 2nd vessel and started up a recirculation for 20mins, as is part of my normal process. However, i then had to suddenly go to work for 3 hrs, so had to stop it there and just let it sit until i could return home, at which point i heated it back up to ~78°C, finished the recirculation and sparge and did the boil, etc.
I'd assumed the time at 78°C (2-10mins?) had denatured the relevant enzymes, however given how low it's attenuated, i can only think that the amylases have continued working for a while.
Just thought i'd post this anecdote partly for those who accidentally hit high 70's for a minute or 2 in their mash as reassurance that some enzymes seem to survive for a little while.
It continued to ferment out to FG=1.012. After the yeast had fired back up again, i kept the temp ~20-22°C and the yeast happily continued munching away.
Which for the Old Ale recipe is annoyingly several points below where it needed to finish.
To try to cater for these results in my recipe spreadsheet (thanks ianh !) i nominated 75% attenuation and dropped the mash temp down to 63°C. This hit all the figures i'd achieved with this brew.
I went the option of manipulating the mash temp because i have doubts that the MJ Dark Ale would attenuate much more than that - time will tell with other people's results.
Also, the mashing process i did basically went all to plan (55/67/72/78 for 5/60/20/2) up to the post-mashout recirculation. I hit 78°C for 2 mins, then pulled the bag, dropped it into a 2nd vessel and started up a recirculation for 20mins, as is part of my normal process. However, i then had to suddenly go to work for 3 hrs, so had to stop it there and just let it sit until i could return home, at which point i heated it back up to ~78°C, finished the recirculation and sparge and did the boil, etc.
I'd assumed the time at 78°C (2-10mins?) had denatured the relevant enzymes, however given how low it's attenuated, i can only think that the amylases have continued working for a while.
Just thought i'd post this anecdote partly for those who accidentally hit high 70's for a minute or 2 in their mash as reassurance that some enzymes seem to survive for a little while.
Tahoose
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 22/9/13
- Messages
- 1,455
- Reaction score
- 498
Right,
95%pils
5% medium crystal
Mashed 90mins at 62
Mash out 78
Pitched 2 packets of rehydrated m84 bohemian lager yeast on to 21litres of 1:048 wort. Pitched at 8c: Fermented at 12c for 2 weeks and spent the last 4 days after a 1:020 reading at 18c.
Took a sample today, still 1:020..
Getting close to throwing some Nottingham in just to finish it. I was hoping to be lagering this by now..
95%pils
5% medium crystal
Mashed 90mins at 62
Mash out 78
Pitched 2 packets of rehydrated m84 bohemian lager yeast on to 21litres of 1:048 wort. Pitched at 8c: Fermented at 12c for 2 weeks and spent the last 4 days after a 1:020 reading at 18c.
Took a sample today, still 1:020..
Getting close to throwing some Nottingham in just to finish it. I was hoping to be lagering this by now..
I've decided to make a strong porter and have two packs of MO3 Newcastle Dark Ale that have been in my fridge for ages, but should be good and viable (I've kept yeasts for up to two years and they always fire up just fine).
However I see that MO3 is now "UK Dark Ale".
Anyone know if this is just a re-name or if it's a different strain?
However I see that MO3 is now "UK Dark Ale".
Anyone know if this is just a re-name or if it's a different strain?
RobB
Well-Known Member
The description of its performance has not changed, so I would say it's the same strain.Bribie G said:
brewchampion
Active Member
Ive just started a mangrove jacks craft series dried yeast substitution / comparison chart.
Please contribute with your thoughts on the blog or in this thread.
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
Please contribute with your thoughts on the blog or in this thread.
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
Liam_snorkel
كافر
- Joined
- 16/9/08
- Messages
- 5,800
- Reaction score
- 2,875
Why?
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
Might be a good idea.
What would actually be truly useful is the estimated Attenuation of each yeast.
I actually liked the finish of the British Ale & Belgian Ale, maybe the Burton Union also. But i find it really discouraging to not know at least a reasonable estimate of the attenuation of each. If i was doing a truckload of (repetitive) brewing i'm sure i could easily develop my own estimate. But since i don't, and the FG is so very important when designing a recipe and Mash schedule, it makes it difficult to use these yeasts compared to others with more known attenuation.
Seems bizarre MJ doesn't recognise this and release their estimates for attenuations. Surely they'd have them!
What would actually be truly useful is the estimated Attenuation of each yeast.
I actually liked the finish of the British Ale & Belgian Ale, maybe the Burton Union also. But i find it really discouraging to not know at least a reasonable estimate of the attenuation of each. If i was doing a truckload of (repetitive) brewing i'm sure i could easily develop my own estimate. But since i don't, and the FG is so very important when designing a recipe and Mash schedule, it makes it difficult to use these yeasts compared to others with more known attenuation.
Seems bizarre MJ doesn't recognise this and release their estimates for attenuations. Surely they'd have them!
growler
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 25/2/08
- Messages
- 77
- Reaction score
- 18
Techno...
On their site (MJ)... I'm sure you can find the link... each yeast variety is rated for attenuation and flocculation properties.
Admittedly only high/medium etc. ratings... but 3s of searching would have answered your question/assertation.
G.
or see Post # 20 first page pdf from AndrewQLD.
On their site (MJ)... I'm sure you can find the link... each yeast variety is rated for attenuation and flocculation properties.
Admittedly only high/medium etc. ratings... but 3s of searching would have answered your question/assertation.
G.
or see Post # 20 first page pdf from AndrewQLD.
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
Yep. Did those 3secs when I first used MJs. Read it and all the other info they currently release to the public (I believe) ages ago.
The other 2 main yeast producers quantify their yeast attenuation - significantly more useful info to a home brewer. By roughly a factor of 20.
I appreciate MJ's disclosure of the general inclination of their yeast strains, however it's too inaccurate when you're trying to use calculations to estimate FG.
What is "high" as a percentage? Or what is "5"?
I appreciate we have to deal with a few variables such that estimates are guesstimates, but dealing with such a large variable seems to be unnecessarily difficult considering the other 2 seem easily capable of producing ranges of 1-5% variation.
Don't get me wrong, I like at least a few of their yeasts and would preferentially use them, I just find it unnecessary and a bit annoying/frustrating to not provide info that they most likely would have and is clearly useful to the homebrewer.
A verbal description and a score out of 5 simply doesn't cut it when you need a quantitative estimate.
Or rather, Why don't they release that info?
The other 2 main yeast producers quantify their yeast attenuation - significantly more useful info to a home brewer. By roughly a factor of 20.
I appreciate MJ's disclosure of the general inclination of their yeast strains, however it's too inaccurate when you're trying to use calculations to estimate FG.
What is "high" as a percentage? Or what is "5"?
I appreciate we have to deal with a few variables such that estimates are guesstimates, but dealing with such a large variable seems to be unnecessarily difficult considering the other 2 seem easily capable of producing ranges of 1-5% variation.
Don't get me wrong, I like at least a few of their yeasts and would preferentially use them, I just find it unnecessary and a bit annoying/frustrating to not provide info that they most likely would have and is clearly useful to the homebrewer.
A verbal description and a score out of 5 simply doesn't cut it when you need a quantitative estimate.
Or rather, Why don't they release that info?
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
True, but if your attenuation varies by, say 10%, then how can you calculate your FG??
How would you adjust your mash or grist to compensate?
I can allow for a 1-2% variation as batch-dependant, etc, but having NFI across a 10% range is a bit tricky.
FWIW, i've found those estimates the other 2 give to be 95% accurate. A point either way in FG is fine; it's when it drops an extra 5 points than expected that things go awry. I work fairly hard to nail all those other aspects of the brewing process to reduce those variables to 1-2%. I might as well use Yob's thumb, just throw stuff in as i go, and ferment in a bucket on the shelf if i'm dealing with such a large unknown.
And i can appreciate their are some exceptions like Belgian yeasts who are notorious for being temperamental high attenuators.
Again,
The others do it, so why can't MJ?
Not trying to rag on MJ (though it might sound a bit like it). I just don't understand why they wouldn't release that quantitative info.
Could anyone explain why they wouldn't?
How would you adjust your mash or grist to compensate?
I can allow for a 1-2% variation as batch-dependant, etc, but having NFI across a 10% range is a bit tricky.
FWIW, i've found those estimates the other 2 give to be 95% accurate. A point either way in FG is fine; it's when it drops an extra 5 points than expected that things go awry. I work fairly hard to nail all those other aspects of the brewing process to reduce those variables to 1-2%. I might as well use Yob's thumb, just throw stuff in as i go, and ferment in a bucket on the shelf if i'm dealing with such a large unknown.
And i can appreciate their are some exceptions like Belgian yeasts who are notorious for being temperamental high attenuators.
Again,
The others do it, so why can't MJ?
Not trying to rag on MJ (though it might sound a bit like it). I just don't understand why they wouldn't release that quantitative info.
Could anyone explain why they wouldn't?
brewchampion
Active Member
technobabble66
The relative attenuation is supplied in the Mangrove jacks yeast booklet. But I find dried yeast is a tad lower.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/MJ_Craft_Series__A5_Yeast_Booklet.pdf?1935
And I suppose i can see why they dont compare directly. Maybe (although I am guessing), 1/ they are not the same strains 2/ copyright
Although WY and WL already have some great comparison charts:
http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/yeast-strain-sources.shtml
Liam, I think it is a good point , why? I suppose partly 1/ [SIZE=13.2px] This would give us all a better idea of to what yeast we are using. 2/ Geeky curiosity.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.2px]So guys! What the hell is the M10 workhorse??[/SIZE]
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
The relative attenuation is supplied in the Mangrove jacks yeast booklet. But I find dried yeast is a tad lower.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/MJ_Craft_Series__A5_Yeast_Booklet.pdf?1935
And I suppose i can see why they dont compare directly. Maybe (although I am guessing), 1/ they are not the same strains 2/ copyright
Although WY and WL already have some great comparison charts:
http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
http://www.thegreatmaibockaddict.com/yeast-strain-sources.shtml
Liam, I think it is a good point , why? I suppose partly 1/ [SIZE=13.2px] This would give us all a better idea of to what yeast we are using. 2/ Geeky curiosity.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.2px]So guys! What the hell is the M10 workhorse??[/SIZE]
http://mjyeastsub.blogspot.com.au/
I used the M44 about a year ago in an APA and took around 2 days to kick off and thought maybe it's just the way it works...
I pitched 3 packs rehydrated M44 into 45Ltr 1050 gravity APA @ 16 degrees on Monday morning and it had a full krausen when I arrived home from work 9 hours later.
I let temp rise to 20 degrees... Its now Thursday and gravity is down to 1016 and still going.. I overpitched slightly but thinking its all in the handling b4 you purchase it. I mashed at 67 and hope its not going to go too low now.
I pitched 3 packs rehydrated M44 into 45Ltr 1050 gravity APA @ 16 degrees on Monday morning and it had a full krausen when I arrived home from work 9 hours later.
I let temp rise to 20 degrees... Its now Thursday and gravity is down to 1016 and still going.. I overpitched slightly but thinking its all in the handling b4 you purchase it. I mashed at 67 and hope its not going to go too low now.
Similar threads
