K&kiab

[gadjitsteve]

G'day guys. Ive been a member for a while now and done a few Kit and Kilo brews which my mates have all raved on about.

I've looked into Nicks $30 stove top AG thread and learn't heaps about BIAB from that thread and this place in general.

So I'm not quite ready for AG yet and only have limited equipment, but could I do a Kit and Kilo brew as I have heaps of coopers kits and dex, LDM etc in my cupboard in a bag?

I can borrow my mates crab cooker and pot and SWMBO can make me a swisse voila (is that how you speel it?) bag and i'm good too go.

So will this make a better beer than just my usual kit and kilo's that I mix in the fermenter?

Has anyone tried this?

If so how did it turn out and if it was good are there any recipes I should try?

Thanks Steve

 

[manticle]

Do you mean make a small wort with some grain and add it to your usual kit in addition/in place of sugar or dry malt?

If so - look up partial mashing and mini-mashing.

You will need to understand the concepts of mashing (vs steeping specialty grains) and the concept of boiling wort for hop bittering and flavour and calculate IBU including that given by the pre-bittered kit.

Some links:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=5393
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-parti...ing-pics-75231/

 

[glenwal]

I can borrow my mates crab cooker and pot

As per the $30 thread, all you need is a pot and some voile - so your not lacking anything for doing a full AG batch.

 

[Yob]

So I'm not quite ready for AG yet and only have limited equipment, but could I do a Kit and Kilo brew as I have heaps of coopers kits and dex, LDM etc in my cupboard in a bag?

I can borrow my mates crab cooker and pot and SWMBO can make me a swisse voila (is that how you speel it?) bag and i'm good too go.

So will this make a better beer than just my usual kit and kilo's that I mix in the fermenter?

I was making some very respectable beers from Kits and Bits, Bits of grain can add freshness back to the deal and added hops can add a bunch of flavour and aroma... Id say get started with a partial to wrap logistics up and then progress as you feel comfortable with..

Some VERY decent beer can be made in this fashion.

Yob

 

[gadjitsteve]

Do you mean make a small wort with some grain and add it to your usual kit in addition/in place of sugar or dry malt?

If so - look up partial mashing and mini-mashing.

You will need to understand the concepts of mashing (vs steeping specialty grains) and the concept of boiling wort for hop bittering and flavour and calculate IBU including that given by the pre-bittered kit.

Some links:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=5393
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-parti...ing-pics-75231/

Wow thanks for the quick replies guys.

I thought that doing what I normally do in the fermenter but in a bag and boiled up would make a better beer. Obviously I have to learn more about IBU's and stuff.

Doesn't the bag and boiling make all the difference?

I told my mate about BIAB and he said I should use the coopers kits up first but just do them in a bag, so like K&KIAB sorta thing.

Does that sound right?

 

[rotten]

Gday mate. Can you explain this K&KIAB thing? It sounds interesting. You may just help another aspiring brewer.

 

[glenwal]

Wow thanks for the quick replies guys.

I thought that doing what I normally do in the fermenter but in a bag and boiled up would make a better beer. Obviously I have to learn more about IBU's and stuff.

Doesn't the bag and boiling make all the difference?

I told my mate about BIAB and he said I should use the coopers kits up first but just do them in a bag, so like K&KIAB sorta thing.

Does that sound right?

the bag is used to hold the grain - it has no use with a straight kit. You can however steep small amounts of specialty grains in a bag to add to your kit beer.

No need to boil up your kit. Boiling is to extract bitterness from hops, kits are already bittered. You can add extra hop additions to help improve your kit, but as a starting point you can just steep them in a small hop bag (ie. Hop Tea Bag) without the need to boil them up.

 

[chrisso81]

I've looked into Nicks $30 stove top AG thread and learn't heaps about BIAB from that thread and this place in general.

<_< You sure you actually read the thread? Considering the question you've posted here, I would suggest that perhaps you have not learnt 'heaps' but have missed the point completely. :blink:
Never fear tho, manticles links and the advice here will get you back on course :super:

 

[manticle]

Wow thanks for the quick replies guys.

I thought that doing what I normally do in the fermenter but in a bag and boiled up would make a better beer. Obviously I have to learn more about IBU's and stuff.

Doesn't the bag and boiling make all the difference?

I told my mate about BIAB and he said I should use the coopers kits up first but just do them in a bag, so like K&KIAB sorta thing.

Does that sound right?

Read these links:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=31
http://brewwiki.com/index.php/Extract_Brewing
http://morebeer.com/themes/morewinepro/mmp...ractBrewing.pdf
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80

As Glen said - no need for a bag if just using a tin and some sugar or malt extract.
No real need for a boil if not using hops.

 

[Jay Cee]

Not once have you mentioned grain. What do think the bag is for, it doesn't add much flavour on it's own.

 

[Jay Cee]

Introducing..... Can In A Bag

Or this:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter13.html

 

[rotten]

Can you get a kilo of sugar in there too? For those who may want to give it a go.

 

[gadjitsteve]

<_< You sure you actually read the thread? Considering the question you've posted here, I would suggest that perhaps you have not learnt 'heaps' but have missed the point completely. :blink:
Never fear tho, manticles links and the advice here will get you back on course :super:

All good I understand that you guys boil grains from scratch and make all grain beer with hops and stuff. Even in Nick's thread the $30 one it makes sense, jus that I had some more cans of coopers kits that I wanted to use before I start full AG.

Read these links:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=31
http://brewwiki.com/index.php/Extract_Brewing
http://morebeer.com/themes/morewinepro/mmp...ractBrewing.pdf
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80

As Glen said - no need for a bag if just using a tin and some sugar or malt extract.
No real need for a boil if not using hops.

Cool, cheers Manticle so I need to add hops to make it worth boiling the coopers kits otherwise Iis a waste of time?

Cheers for the help, I'm new to this.

 

[Murcluf]

Not once have you mentioned grain. What do think the bag is for, it doesn't add much flavour on it's own.

unless he is using a mash paddle made from koala pelts?????

 

[manticle]

You boil hops with some malt (extract or from grain) to get bitterness, flavour and aroma.

Kits (not malt extract tins) have been pre-bittered. While you can boil them with extra hops, you will add bitterness so need to take that into account.

 

[gadjitsteve]

Gday mate. Can you explain this K&KIAB thing? It sounds interesting. You may just help another aspiring brewer.

G'day Rotten. I'd love to help somone in my position but without being to brash I'm not sure if this K7KIAB thing is any good. Ill do one on the weekend with my coopers cans and let you know how it goes.

They're a little old as my mate gave them to me as he nolonger brews. Its guys like him who like my beer but are to slack to do homebrew that make me want to get good at it as they always go on about my beer but don'y make the effort.

I reckon if this kit and kilo thing is better through a bag I'll introduce them to that as its not that the kit and kilo thing is hard to do more that they're scared of pushing the boundries and making real beer, know what I mean?

Hopefully if they like these new beers more and can improve their sterilizing they will jump on board and maybe even join this forum, heaps of great info and help on here. Thanks guys, cheers Steve

 

[glenwal]

I reckon if this kit and kilo thing is better through a bag

I'm still not sure what your putting in the bag?

 

[rotten]

G'day Rotten. I'd love to help somone in my position but without being to brash I'm not sure if this K7KIAB thing is any good. Ill do one on the weekend with my coopers cans and let you know how it goes.

They're a little old as my mate gave them to me as he nolonger brews. Its guys like him who like my beer but are to slack to do homebrew that make me want to get good at it as they always go on about my beer but don'y make the effort.

I reckon if this kit and kilo thing is better through a bag I'll introduce them to that as its not that the kit and kilo thing is hard to do more that they're scared of pushing the boundries and making real beer, know what I mean?

Hopefully if they like these new beers more and can improve their sterilizing they will jump on board and maybe even join this forum, heaps of great info and help on here. Thanks guys, cheers Steve

subscribed B)

 

[gadjitsteve]

unless he is using a mash paddle made from koala pelts?????

Koala pelts? Like hop pelets or something. Do Koala's have something to do with hops like, they poop and they're poop fertilizes hops or something????

I don't post here much because I don't understabd alot of what I read here. This is like the first night I've sat here and asked questions.

You boil hops with some malt (extract or from grain) to get bitterness, flavour and aroma.

Kits (not malt extract tins) have been pre-bittered. While you can boil them with extra hops, you will add bitterness so need to take that into account.

So I shouldn't boil the kits/cans at all and just steep them and then add hops and boil, like a proper AG beer?

Il try reading those links you sent me so I can work all this out for myself. BTW bad religion rule, cheers Steve

 

[GuyQLD]

Boiling those coopers tins is probably slightly detrimental, they are already pre-hopped so by boiling them you're upsetting the "flavour" that's already been created in them.

It's more common to make hop tea when dealing with these pre-hopped tins to add flavour/freshness/aroma.

As to "kit-kiab" as your friend has suggested, I don't think he gets the point of BIAB, the bag only serves the purpose of filtering the grains out - with your kits there are no grains. As to the boil, if you're boiling anything you only need short times to pastureise; again your tins already are so what's the point? You could look into steeping grains to add some freshness to the kits and you might want to use your bag there, but any old saucepan will work - you don't need huge volumes (Just don't boil grain... grain comes out before you turn that sucker on).

I'm probably just regurgitating Manticles posts here so I'll quit while I'm behind. Besides after my drunken panic posting last night I'm hardly qualified to add anything useful; but I found partials and kits'n'bits more confusing than just diving into all grain. All grain I know what the hell I'm working with. Kits I'm guessing at best (Or relying on IanH's excellent spreadsheet).