K&kiab

[gadjitsteve]

G'day guys. Ive been a member for a while now and done a few Kit and Kilo brews which my mates have all raved on about.

I've looked into Nicks $30 stove top AG thread and learn't heaps about BIAB from that thread and this place in general.

So I'm not quite ready for AG yet and only have limited equipment, but could I do a Kit and Kilo brew as I have heaps of coopers kits and dex, LDM etc in my cupboard in a bag?

I can borrow my mates crab cooker and pot and SWMBO can make me a swisse voila (is that how you speel it?) bag and i'm good too go.

So will this make a better beer than just my usual kit and kilo's that I mix in the fermenter?

Has anyone tried this?

If so how did it turn out and if it was good are there any recipes I should try?

Thanks Steve

 

[manticle]

Do you mean make a small wort with some grain and add it to your usual kit in addition/in place of sugar or dry malt?

If so - look up partial mashing and mini-mashing.

You will need to understand the concepts of mashing (vs steeping specialty grains) and the concept of boiling wort for hop bittering and flavour and calculate IBU including that given by the pre-bittered kit.

Some links:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=5393
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-parti...ing-pics-75231/

 

[glenwal]

I can borrow my mates crab cooker and pot

As per the $30 thread, all you need is a pot and some voile - so your not lacking anything for doing a full AG batch.

 

[Yob]

So I'm not quite ready for AG yet and only have limited equipment, but could I do a Kit and Kilo brew as I have heaps of coopers kits and dex, LDM etc in my cupboard in a bag?

I can borrow my mates crab cooker and pot and SWMBO can make me a swisse voila (is that how you speel it?) bag and i'm good too go.

So will this make a better beer than just my usual kit and kilo's that I mix in the fermenter?

I was making some very respectable beers from Kits and Bits, Bits of grain can add freshness back to the deal and added hops can add a bunch of flavour and aroma... Id say get started with a partial to wrap logistics up and then progress as you feel comfortable with..

Some VERY decent beer can be made in this fashion.

Yob

 

[gadjitsteve]

Do you mean make a small wort with some grain and add it to your usual kit in addition/in place of sugar or dry malt?

If so - look up partial mashing and mini-mashing.

You will need to understand the concepts of mashing (vs steeping specialty grains) and the concept of boiling wort for hop bittering and flavour and calculate IBU including that given by the pre-bittered kit.

Some links:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=5393
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-parti...ing-pics-75231/

Wow thanks for the quick replies guys.

I thought that doing what I normally do in the fermenter but in a bag and boiled up would make a better beer. Obviously I have to learn more about IBU's and stuff.

Doesn't the bag and boiling make all the difference?

I told my mate about BIAB and he said I should use the coopers kits up first but just do them in a bag, so like K&KIAB sorta thing.

Does that sound right?

 

[rotten]

Gday mate. Can you explain this K&KIAB thing? It sounds interesting. You may just help another aspiring brewer.

 

[glenwal]

Wow thanks for the quick replies guys.

I thought that doing what I normally do in the fermenter but in a bag and boiled up would make a better beer. Obviously I have to learn more about IBU's and stuff.

Doesn't the bag and boiling make all the difference?

I told my mate about BIAB and he said I should use the coopers kits up first but just do them in a bag, so like K&KIAB sorta thing.

Does that sound right?

the bag is used to hold the grain - it has no use with a straight kit. You can however steep small amounts of specialty grains in a bag to add to your kit beer.

No need to boil up your kit. Boiling is to extract bitterness from hops, kits are already bittered. You can add extra hop additions to help improve your kit, but as a starting point you can just steep them in a small hop bag (ie. Hop Tea Bag) without the need to boil them up.

 

[chrisso81]

I've looked into Nicks $30 stove top AG thread and learn't heaps about BIAB from that thread and this place in general.

<_< You sure you actually read the thread? Considering the question you've posted here, I would suggest that perhaps you have not learnt 'heaps' but have missed the point completely. :blink:
Never fear tho, manticles links and the advice here will get you back on course :super:

 

[manticle]

Wow thanks for the quick replies guys.

I thought that doing what I normally do in the fermenter but in a bag and boiled up would make a better beer. Obviously I have to learn more about IBU's and stuff.

Doesn't the bag and boiling make all the difference?

I told my mate about BIAB and he said I should use the coopers kits up first but just do them in a bag, so like K&KIAB sorta thing.

Does that sound right?

Read these links:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=31
http://brewwiki.com/index.php/Extract_Brewing
http://morebeer.com/themes/morewinepro/mmp...ractBrewing.pdf
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80

As Glen said - no need for a bag if just using a tin and some sugar or malt extract.
No real need for a boil if not using hops.

 

[Jay Cee]

Not once have you mentioned grain. What do think the bag is for, it doesn't add much flavour on it's own.

 

[Jay Cee]

Introducing..... Can In A Bag

Or this:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter13.html

 

[rotten]

Can you get a kilo of sugar in there too? For those who may want to give it a go.

 

[gadjitsteve]

<_< You sure you actually read the thread? Considering the question you've posted here, I would suggest that perhaps you have not learnt 'heaps' but have missed the point completely. :blink:
Never fear tho, manticles links and the advice here will get you back on course :super:

All good I understand that you guys boil grains from scratch and make all grain beer with hops and stuff. Even in Nick's thread the $30 one it makes sense, jus that I had some more cans of coopers kits that I wanted to use before I start full AG.

Read these links:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=31
http://brewwiki.com/index.php/Extract_Brewing
http://morebeer.com/themes/morewinepro/mmp...ractBrewing.pdf
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80

As Glen said - no need for a bag if just using a tin and some sugar or malt extract.
No real need for a boil if not using hops.

Cool, cheers Manticle so I need to add hops to make it worth boiling the coopers kits otherwise Iis a waste of time?

Cheers for the help, I'm new to this.

 

[Murcluf]

Not once have you mentioned grain. What do think the bag is for, it doesn't add much flavour on it's own.

unless he is using a mash paddle made from koala pelts?????

 

[manticle]

You boil hops with some malt (extract or from grain) to get bitterness, flavour and aroma.

Kits (not malt extract tins) have been pre-bittered. While you can boil them with extra hops, you will add bitterness so need to take that into account.

 

[gadjitsteve]

Gday mate. Can you explain this K&KIAB thing? It sounds interesting. You may just help another aspiring brewer.

G'day Rotten. I'd love to help somone in my position but without being to brash I'm not sure if this K7KIAB thing is any good. Ill do one on the weekend with my coopers cans and let you know how it goes.

They're a little old as my mate gave them to me as he nolonger brews. Its guys like him who like my beer but are to slack to do homebrew that make me want to get good at it as they always go on about my beer but don'y make the effort.

I reckon if this kit and kilo thing is better through a bag I'll introduce them to that as its not that the kit and kilo thing is hard to do more that they're scared of pushing the boundries and making real beer, know what I mean?

Hopefully if they like these new beers more and can improve their sterilizing they will jump on board and maybe even join this forum, heaps of great info and help on here. Thanks guys, cheers Steve

 

[glenwal]

I reckon if this kit and kilo thing is better through a bag

I'm still not sure what your putting in the bag?

 

[rotten]

G'day Rotten. I'd love to help somone in my position but without being to brash I'm not sure if this K7KIAB thing is any good. Ill do one on the weekend with my coopers cans and let you know how it goes.

They're a little old as my mate gave them to me as he nolonger brews. Its guys like him who like my beer but are to slack to do homebrew that make me want to get good at it as they always go on about my beer but don'y make the effort.

I reckon if this kit and kilo thing is better through a bag I'll introduce them to that as its not that the kit and kilo thing is hard to do more that they're scared of pushing the boundries and making real beer, know what I mean?

Hopefully if they like these new beers more and can improve their sterilizing they will jump on board and maybe even join this forum, heaps of great info and help on here. Thanks guys, cheers Steve

subscribed B)

 

[gadjitsteve]

unless he is using a mash paddle made from koala pelts?????

Koala pelts? Like hop pelets or something. Do Koala's have something to do with hops like, they poop and they're poop fertilizes hops or something????

I don't post here much because I don't understabd alot of what I read here. This is like the first night I've sat here and asked questions.

You boil hops with some malt (extract or from grain) to get bitterness, flavour and aroma.

Kits (not malt extract tins) have been pre-bittered. While you can boil them with extra hops, you will add bitterness so need to take that into account.

So I shouldn't boil the kits/cans at all and just steep them and then add hops and boil, like a proper AG beer?

Il try reading those links you sent me so I can work all this out for myself. BTW bad religion rule, cheers Steve

 

[GuyQLD]

Boiling those coopers tins is probably slightly detrimental, they are already pre-hopped so by boiling them you're upsetting the "flavour" that's already been created in them.

It's more common to make hop tea when dealing with these pre-hopped tins to add flavour/freshness/aroma.

As to "kit-kiab" as your friend has suggested, I don't think he gets the point of BIAB, the bag only serves the purpose of filtering the grains out - with your kits there are no grains. As to the boil, if you're boiling anything you only need short times to pastureise; again your tins already are so what's the point? You could look into steeping grains to add some freshness to the kits and you might want to use your bag there, but any old saucepan will work - you don't need huge volumes (Just don't boil grain... grain comes out before you turn that sucker on).

I'm probably just regurgitating Manticles posts here so I'll quit while I'm behind. Besides after my drunken panic posting last night I'm hardly qualified to add anything useful; but I found partials and kits'n'bits more confusing than just diving into all grain. All grain I know what the hell I'm working with. Kits I'm guessing at best (Or relying on IanH's excellent spreadsheet).

 

[gadjitsteve]

I'm still not sure what your putting in the bag?

The coopers sparkling ale kit and the coopers malt exstract kit like in the DSGA recipe. I thought by filtering it throught the bag and then boiling it it would improve my brew but looks like I might have got it wrong. Thanks for all the quick replies guys, can bearly keep up with the typing. My fingers are on fire LOL

subscribed B)

Rotten what does subscribed mean. Does it mean you wan to know how my K&KIAB thing works out or is it so you can help along the way.

Have you done one before and if so can you point me in the rght direction. The kits and the extra hops ect that the DSGA recipe needs is like $30 and I dont want to stuff it up. Cheers Steve

 

[glenwal]

The coopers sparkling ale kit and the coopers malt exstract kit like in the DSGA recipe. I thought by filtering it throught the bag and then boiling it it would improve my brew but looks like I might have got it wrong. Thanks for all the quick replies guys, can bearly keep up with the typing. My fingers are on fire LOL

Yep - way off track. The bag is just to hold the grains during the mash. No grain = no use for a bag

 

[Jay Cee]

All good I understand that you guys boil grains

No, we don't boil grains. The grains are steeped at a set temperature, removed from the liquid, then the liquid is boiled.

I thought by filtering it throught the bag

Filtering what, exactly?

You really need to read the linked pages

 

[rotten]

Rotten what does subscribed mean. Does it mean you wan to know how my K&KIAB thing works out or is it so you can help along the way.

Have you done one before and if so can you point me in the rght direction. The kits and the extra hops ect that the DSGA recipe needs is like $30 and I dont want to stuff it up. Cheers Steve

I'd like to help along the way and see how it works out for you and your mate. I AG only but maybe the bag could help with the hops that you add and filter the tin goop or malt ? I agree that $30 is a lot to spend on a brew.

 

[yum beer]

Dont wanna be an arse, but seriously steve, keep buying beer from the bottle shop.


Make beer with your Coopers cans as you have been and forget about the bag...its just ******* up your head.

Read Nicks thread again from the start and try and get your head around the process and ingredients.

Right now you are confusing two simple yet very different methods.

 

[gadjitsteve]

Yep - way off track. The bag is just to hold the grains during the mash. No grain = no use for a bag

Cool so If I do the AG version of the DSGA I can use the bag but not the kit cans?

No, we don't boil grains. The grains are steeped at a set temperature, removed from the liquid, then the liquid is boiled.




Filtering what, exactly?

You really need to read the linked pages

Yep I'm trying to read the links but I also try to read the latest links from the top right of the home page which is what I've been doong for the last year or so and the link about the fire extingishers has me puzzled.

Why the hell would you mount it upside down. I thought only the kegs have dip tubes?

I'd like to help along the way and see how it works out for you and your mate. I AG only but maybe the bag could help with the hops that you add and filter the tin goop or malt ? I agree that $30 is a lot to spend on a brew.

$30 is heaps thats why I'm trying to get this right. Surely I'm doing something right.

So far does anything I've written make sense or am I completlly wrong.

 

[bum]

Surely I'm doing something right.

No.

Keep doing the kits the way you have been then look at the BIAB stuff when you're ready to go AG.

Understand that ready is different to when you want to.

Keep reading. Good luck with it.

 

[glenwal]

Cool so If I do the AG version of the DSGA I can use the bag but not the kit cans?

AG (all grain) is exactly that, all grain. There are no kits involved. When you say bag, what is it your refering to? If you mean the bag of sugar/brew enhancer/etc... then no - you don't use that either. if you mean the grain bag (basically a big sack you put grain in) then yes, you use a bag (or just a big piece of swiss voile) if doing BIAB.

So far does anything I've written make sense.

Not really.

 

[gadjitsteve]

Dont wanna be an arse, but seriously steve, keep buying beer from the bottle shop.


Make beer with your Coopers cans as you have been and forget about the bag...its just ******* up your head.

Read Nicks thread again from the start and try and get your head around the process and ingredients.

Right now you are confusing two simple yet very different methods.

Yum beer, Ive read Nick's thread like 10 times, it makes sense sorta, but just because I don't completly get it doesn't mean you have to give me **** about it. It's really ****** up my head but I don't need to be insulted on a public forum to know that.

If you could give me some real advice I'd rather than then listening to you winge about my shortcomings in beer making.

I buy beer from the bottle shop. One of my favorite beers is James Squires golden ale, **** I even liked that new Pale Lager from the Vic Bitter brewery, but it was nowhere as good as the golden ale.

Ive made the golden ale before with the kits in the fremwnter and just added 2 litres of boiling water but from what I've read on here I need to boil it for an hour, add hops, use a bag and keep **** sterilized to make it better then what just chcking kit goop into the fermenter will do.

Thats all I'm after, just something better than what I'm doing now. AG will come but I need to know I can master K&K before going in head first into AG.

 

[gadjitsteve]

No.

Keep doing the kits the way you have been then look at the BIAB stuff when you're ready to go AG.

Understand that ready is different to when you want to.

Keep reading. Good luck with it.

OK cool Bum thanks for the positive words. I've read heaps and it still doesn't make complete sense. There's too much stuff to read and not enough how to threads like NickJD's.

I always thought that was the gospel to getting into AG but now I'm confused and then ********* like yumbeer tell me to give up and just buy beer from the bottlo.

If I wanted to do that I would. I just want to make some good beer and thought the BIAB method was the cheapest easiest way to do it.

AG (all grain) is exactly that, all grain. There are no kits involved. When you say bag, what is it your refering to? If you mean the bag of sugar/brew enhancer/etc... then no - you don't use that either. if you mean the grain bag (basically a big sack you put grain in) then yes, you use a bag (or just a big piece of swiss voile) if doing BIAB.



Not really.

I was on about the BIAB bag, the swiss voile.

So if I dont put the kits into the bag into the water then I'm doing it wrong yeah.

It was only an idea, I thought it was the next step form kit and kilo to go BIAB?