K&kiab

[gadjitsteve]

I'm still not sure what your putting in the bag?

The coopers sparkling ale kit and the coopers malt exstract kit like in the DSGA recipe. I thought by filtering it throught the bag and then boiling it it would improve my brew but looks like I might have got it wrong. Thanks for all the quick replies guys, can bearly keep up with the typing. My fingers are on fire LOL

subscribed B)

Rotten what does subscribed mean. Does it mean you wan to know how my K&KIAB thing works out or is it so you can help along the way.

Have you done one before and if so can you point me in the rght direction. The kits and the extra hops ect that the DSGA recipe needs is like $30 and I dont want to stuff it up. Cheers Steve

 

[glenwal]

The coopers sparkling ale kit and the coopers malt exstract kit like in the DSGA recipe. I thought by filtering it throught the bag and then boiling it it would improve my brew but looks like I might have got it wrong. Thanks for all the quick replies guys, can bearly keep up with the typing. My fingers are on fire LOL

Yep - way off track. The bag is just to hold the grains during the mash. No grain = no use for a bag

 

[Jay Cee]

All good I understand that you guys boil grains

No, we don't boil grains. The grains are steeped at a set temperature, removed from the liquid, then the liquid is boiled.

I thought by filtering it throught the bag

Filtering what, exactly?

You really need to read the linked pages

 

[rotten]

Rotten what does subscribed mean. Does it mean you wan to know how my K&KIAB thing works out or is it so you can help along the way.

Have you done one before and if so can you point me in the rght direction. The kits and the extra hops ect that the DSGA recipe needs is like $30 and I dont want to stuff it up. Cheers Steve

I'd like to help along the way and see how it works out for you and your mate. I AG only but maybe the bag could help with the hops that you add and filter the tin goop or malt ? I agree that $30 is a lot to spend on a brew.

 

[yum beer]

Dont wanna be an arse, but seriously steve, keep buying beer from the bottle shop.


Make beer with your Coopers cans as you have been and forget about the bag...its just ******* up your head.

Read Nicks thread again from the start and try and get your head around the process and ingredients.

Right now you are confusing two simple yet very different methods.

 

[gadjitsteve]

Yep - way off track. The bag is just to hold the grains during the mash. No grain = no use for a bag

Cool so If I do the AG version of the DSGA I can use the bag but not the kit cans?

No, we don't boil grains. The grains are steeped at a set temperature, removed from the liquid, then the liquid is boiled.




Filtering what, exactly?

You really need to read the linked pages

Yep I'm trying to read the links but I also try to read the latest links from the top right of the home page which is what I've been doong for the last year or so and the link about the fire extingishers has me puzzled.

Why the hell would you mount it upside down. I thought only the kegs have dip tubes?

I'd like to help along the way and see how it works out for you and your mate. I AG only but maybe the bag could help with the hops that you add and filter the tin goop or malt ? I agree that $30 is a lot to spend on a brew.

$30 is heaps thats why I'm trying to get this right. Surely I'm doing something right.

So far does anything I've written make sense or am I completlly wrong.

 

[bum]

Surely I'm doing something right.

No.

Keep doing the kits the way you have been then look at the BIAB stuff when you're ready to go AG.

Understand that ready is different to when you want to.

Keep reading. Good luck with it.

 

[glenwal]

Cool so If I do the AG version of the DSGA I can use the bag but not the kit cans?

AG (all grain) is exactly that, all grain. There are no kits involved. When you say bag, what is it your refering to? If you mean the bag of sugar/brew enhancer/etc... then no - you don't use that either. if you mean the grain bag (basically a big sack you put grain in) then yes, you use a bag (or just a big piece of swiss voile) if doing BIAB.

So far does anything I've written make sense.

Not really.

 

[gadjitsteve]

Dont wanna be an arse, but seriously steve, keep buying beer from the bottle shop.


Make beer with your Coopers cans as you have been and forget about the bag...its just ******* up your head.

Read Nicks thread again from the start and try and get your head around the process and ingredients.

Right now you are confusing two simple yet very different methods.

Yum beer, Ive read Nick's thread like 10 times, it makes sense sorta, but just because I don't completly get it doesn't mean you have to give me shit about it. It's really fuckin up my head but I don't need to be insulted on a public forum to know that.

If you could give me some real advice I'd rather than then listening to you winge about my shortcomings in beer making.

I buy beer from the bottle shop. One of my favorite beers is James Squires golden ale, shit I even liked that new Pale Lager from the Vic Bitter brewery, but it was nowhere as good as the golden ale.

Ive made the golden ale before with the kits in the fremwnter and just added 2 litres of boiling water but from what I've read on here I need to boil it for an hour, add hops, use a bag and keep shit sterilized to make it better then what just chcking kit goop into the fermenter will do.

Thats all I'm after, just something better than what I'm doing now. AG will come but I need to know I can master K&K before going in head first into AG.

 

[gadjitsteve]

No.

Keep doing the kits the way you have been then look at the BIAB stuff when you're ready to go AG.

Understand that ready is different to when you want to.

Keep reading. Good luck with it.

OK cool Bum thanks for the positive words. I've read heaps and it still doesn't make complete sense. There's too much stuff to read and not enough how to threads like NickJD's.

I always thought that was the gospel to getting into AG but now I'm confused and then dickheads like yumbeer tell me to give up and just buy beer from the bottlo.

If I wanted to do that I would. I just want to make some good beer and thought the BIAB method was the cheapest easiest way to do it.

AG (all grain) is exactly that, all grain. There are no kits involved. When you say bag, what is it your refering to? If you mean the bag of sugar/brew enhancer/etc... then no - you don't use that either. if you mean the grain bag (basically a big sack you put grain in) then yes, you use a bag (or just a big piece of swiss voile) if doing BIAB.



Not really.

I was on about the BIAB bag, the swiss voile.

So if I dont put the kits into the bag into the water then I'm doing it wrong yeah.

It was only an idea, I thought it was the next step form kit and kilo to go BIAB?

 

[rotten]

I need to know I can master K&K before going in head first into AG.

Don't ya mean K&KIAB?

 

[manticle]

Where do you live mate?

If you're struggling to comprehend the written word (some people don't learn well that way) then seeing someone do it and explain on the way can help cement the ideas.

Put your location in your profile and see if there's a brewer nearby who's happy for you to watch and asl questions or even a brewclub in your area.

 

[kelbygreen]

Its been said plenty of times but I am guessing your local home brew shop does not sell grain why you are confused. Kits and extract (dry and liquid malt as well as dextrose or the brew enhancer bags) are just dissolved in hot water. Boiling them will not make a difference and boiling the can (kit) which is pre hopped is not a good thing to do. You can boil the none hopped extract (dry or liquid form)

Now what your confusing is BIAB or AG (all grain) all grain we use no powdered extract. you seen whole barley or wheat kernels before? thats whats used it gets milled and then put into water to maintain a temp of 63-70deg depending on the style and fermentablities you want. Then the grain is removed and washed and discarded the liquid is then boiled to sanitise and also there is no bitterness or hop flavour. Then you add hops to bitter and flavour the now WORT! Now there is nothing add into this thats in a bag or tin, unless you need to add dextrose but that to the style you will brew and 99% the time you can control that with mash temps.

You need to post your location as you seem like your totally confused at what the difference is. Some one on this forum will be happy to show you how to make AG beer and let you watch them do it. I think its the best way to learn as I myself done. After the day you can see and relate to whats been done and talked about.

 

[stevemc32]

Hey Steve, I'm only new to BIAB as well and it took me a few reads to get my head around the process but I've done couple now and it looks to be working. Here's were it seems you're having some trouble.

Think about your kit brew first. You take a can of goop, add it to some water, chuck in your kilo of enhancer and you've got 23 litres of sweet sugary stuff ready to add yeast and seal up. Take a snapshot right here and call this "Point A".

Now lets have a look at the Brew in a Bag method. You buy some cracked grains, some hops, a big pan and a bag. You fill your big pan with water, heat it up to about 70 degrees, throw in your bag and then fill the bag with your cracked grains. This then sits in the pan for 60 to 90 minutes while the hot water removes the sugar from the grains. Once the 60 - 90 minutes is up, you pull the bag and grains from the pot and you're left with a pan full of sweet sugary stuff, but you're only half way there.

To add the bitterness and aroma that we love this sugar water is now brought to the boil and hops are added at various times throughout the boiling process which normally lasts for about an hour. Hops added at the start of the boil generally do the bittering, hops added later are for flavour and aroma. Once the boiling is finished you cover the pot and stick it on the concrete floor to cool it down. When it's cooled you throw it into your fermenter and you're ready to add the yeast. You've now reached the very same "Point A" (with hopefully some better quality sweet sugary stuff) that you had achieved with the kit brew.

The point here is that all the BIAB work has already been done on that kit can of goop that you used to make up the first brew. Someone else has done it for you, concentrated it and stuck it in a can, so there's no longer any need for a bag or grains or hops or boiling. Those things are only necessary if you don't want to use the can.

I hope this is helpful. For those in the know, it's supposed to be a very light, general overview from one beginner to another so please be gentle.

edit - typing at the same time as kelby, so looks like I've repeated a bunch of stuff.

 

[petesbrew]

Do you realise the Bag is basically just an oversized teabag for holding grain? And if you pour the kit in it it'll just go straight through?
Read up in the articles about improving knk beers, steeping grains & using hops. Grab recipes, give em a go, and just keep on trying.
I did have a chuckle reading this, but hey, we all start somewhere.

Might I just add, I've got an AG beer on the go here that tastes like arse. I'm about ready to tip the rest of it. Yep, I've made better Knk than THAT one.
Lots of fun AGing, and there's lots of room for error too.

 

[bum]

There's too much stuff to read and not enough how to threads like NickJD's.

Nick's thread is particularly user-friendly and very, very light on with the technical stuff. If you're not quite grasping it yet just do a few more kit brews (then kit & bits brews) until you feel like you've learned as much as you can there then look into AG again and it will probably all click into place.

I just want to make some good beer and thought the BIAB method was the cheapest easiest way to do it.

Yeah, that's probably a pretty good assessment but the word "easiest" is kinda tricky. It isn't really a sneaky back-door into AG brewing where you don't need to understand the fundamentals (as much as some people want to try to gloss over them). The gear and process can be simpler with BIAB (but even that depends who you ask) but you still need to know what you're doing and why (you can get away without understanding the why on a chemical level for as long as you like though, IMO, but it might stop your great beers from progressing to excellent beers - I'd settle for great beers any day of the week).

seeing someone do it and explain on the way can help cement the ideas.

^this - or maybe someone who knows of any good youtube BIAB vids might like to put up some links.

 

[thelockupgarage]

Now I'll put my hand up and say that I am in no way an expert in home brewing with only 2 months and about 10 brews under my belt but I might just jump in here.

I watched for a number of years my neighbour homebrew, and all he did was get a coopers kit and follow the instructions on the pack - kit, sugar, and water in the fermenter, and pitch the yeast. To be honest, I had no enthusiasm to home brew from that experience. What did get me into it was going to the Bitter and Twisted festival in Maitland last year. My brother and I sat with the Hunter United Brewers all day, and we watched Mark from Mark's Home Brew (Newcastle) do an all grain. At the time much of it went over my head but my brother threw himself into all grain brews.

As for myself, I made a tentative step into it, and this is where I might be able to help you Steve.
This is my process.

Cooper's Pale Ale kit
Brew Enhancer 2
150g Crystal Grain
12g hops
Coopers yeast

Now before anyone jumps at me and says that the coopers yeast is rubbish, my aim was simply to see what would be produced, and to get the experience.

In a 10 litre pot, bring about 5 litres of water to 70 degrees and turn off the heat.
Tie the grain up loosely in a bag made of swiss voile and add to the water. This will bring the temp back to the required 68 degrees.
Put the lid on the pot and cover with as many blankets and towels as possible and leave for 60 minutes.
Take the grain bag out and sit in a strainer over a bowl. When the grain bag is cool enough, give it a good squeeze and add the liquid in the bowl to the pot.
Bring the pot with the grain flavoured liquid to a 30 minutes boil.
Near the end of the boil, add the BE2 and stir through
Add the liquid from the pot to the fermenter, and add water to about 10 litres.
Pour in Coopers kit and stir through.
Fill to 20 litres, put fermenter lid on and airlock, and sit on the verandah until cool enough to pitch the yeast.
When cool enough, put hops in tea cup, add some boiling water and cover with glad wrap for 10 minutes.
Pour hops and water from tea cup into fermenter and stir like a bugger to get as much aeration into it.
Pitch yeast.

I have done this process a number of times using Citra, Amarillo, Fuggles, Nelson Sauvin, Cascade and Pride of Ringwood hops, just to see what the hops add. From my experience, this is a nice step towards all grain, and with a 40 litre urn turning up tomorrow, that time will be upon me very soon.

The addition of grain and hops adds very little to the cost of the beer. I simply bought a kilo of crystal grain ($5), and 50 grams of each of the hops (about $5 each). What it adds to the taste of the beer is what's important, and I have been pleased with the results. No where near all grain quality but miles ahead of just the kit and sugar. My neighbour, the kit and sugar neighbour came over to taste my first beer, took one taste, and told me he was giving up homebrewing and that he would just come over to my place and drink mine.

 

[gadjitsteve]

Hey Steve, I'm only new to BIAB as well and it took me a few reads to get my head around the process but I've done couple now and it looks to be working. Here's were it seems you're having some trouble.

Think about your kit brew first. You take a can of goop, add it to some water, chuck in your kilo of enhancer and you've got 23 litres of sweet sugary stuff ready to add yeast and seal up. Take a snapshot right here and call this "Point A".

Now lets have a look at the Brew in a Bag method. You buy some cracked grains, some hops, a big pan and a bag. You fill your big pan with water, heat it up to about 70 degrees, throw in your bag and then fill the bag with your cracked grains. This then sits in the pan for 60 to 90 minutes while the hot water removes the sugar from the grains. Once the 60 - 90 minutes is up, you pull the bag and grains from the pot and you're left with a pan full of sweet sugary stuff, but you're only half way there.

To add the bitterness and aroma that we love this sugar water is now brought to the boil and hops are added at various times throughout the boiling process which normally lasts for about an hour. Hops added at the start of the boil generally do the bittering, hops added later are for flavour and aroma. Once the boiling is finished you cover the pot and stick it on the concrete floor to cool it down. When it's cooled you throw it into your fermenter and you're ready to add the yeast. You've now reached the very same "Point A" (with hopefully some better quality sweet sugary stuff) that you had achieved with the kit brew.

The point here is that all the BIAB work has already been done on that kit can of goop that you used to make up the first brew. Someone else has done it for you, concentrated it and stuck it in a can, so there's no longer any need for a bag or grains or hops or boiling. Those things are only necessary if you don't want to use the can.

I hope this is helpful. For those in the know, it's supposed to be a very light, general overview from one beginner to another so please be gentle.

edit - typing at the same time as kelby, so looks like I've repeated a bunch of stuff.

Cool so I'm in Adelaide and added that to my profile.

Anyone from Adelaide that can help will be good. I'm always keen to learn.

Thanks SteveMC32, you've cleared a fair bit up. The coopers cans are premade wort like what you would make in an AG BIAB brew?

I've dont the Coopers tour and the old fella doing the tour gave me some tips, said he had been brewing for over 20 years and mentioned using a bag, which was what he has done for a while now and it made some of his best beers.

I'm only a few pages onto the links you guys have posted. I think I've read the NickJD one so many times my heads gonn explode :lol:

Thanks Steve

 

[bignath]

Hey Steve, I'm only new to BIAB as well and it took me a few reads to get my head around the process but I've done couple now and it looks to be working. Here's were it seems you're having some trouble.

Think about your kit brew first. You take a can of goop, add it to some water, chuck in your kilo of enhancer and you've got 23 litres of sweet sugary stuff ready to add yeast and seal up. Take a snapshot right here and call this "Point A".

Now lets have a look at the Brew in a Bag method. You buy some cracked grains, some hops, a big pan and a bag. You fill your big pan with water, heat it up to about 70 degrees, throw in your bag and then fill the bag with your cracked grains. This then sits in the pan for 60 to 90 minutes while the hot water removes the sugar from the grains. Once the 60 - 90 minutes is up, you pull the bag and grains from the pot and you're left with a pan full of sweet sugary stuff, but you're only half way there.

To add the bitterness and aroma that we love this sugar water is now brought to the boil and hops are added at various times throughout the boiling process which normally lasts for about an hour. Hops added at the start of the boil generally do the bittering, hops added later are for flavour and aroma. Once the boiling is finished you cover the pot and stick it on the concrete floor to cool it down. When it's cooled you throw it into your fermenter and you're ready to add the yeast. You've now reached the very same "Point A" (with hopefully some better quality sweet sugary stuff) that you had achieved with the kit brew.

The point here is that all the BIAB work has already been done on that kit can of goop that you used to make up the first brew. Someone else has done it for you, concentrated it and stuck it in a can, so there's no longer any need for a bag or grains or hops or boiling. Those things are only necessary if you don't want to use the can.

I hope this is helpful. For those in the know, it's supposed to be a very light, general overview from one beginner to another so please be gentle.


edit - typing at the same time as kelby, so looks like I've repeated a bunch of stuff.

Not that im some kind of posting nazi, but this post here is an excellent one.

Even more so as its come from someone who has just recently made the same or similar transition to what you are trying to do.

Explains it all pretty much.

 

[gadjitsteve]

Now I'll put my hand up and say that I am in no way an expert in home brewing with only 2 months and about 10 brews under my belt but I might just jump in here.

I watched for a number of years my neighbour homebrew, and all he did was get a coopers kit and follow the instructions on the pack - kit, sugar, and water in the fermenter, and pitch the yeast. To be honest, I had no enthusiasm to home brew from that experience. What did get me into it was going to the Bitter and Twisted festival in Maitland last year. My brother and I sat with the Hunter United Brewers all day, and we watched Mark from Mark's Home Brew (Newcastle) do an all grain. At the time much of it went over my head but my brother threw himself into all grain brews.

As for myself, I made a tentative step into it, and this is where I might be able to help you Steve.
This is my process.

Cooper's Pale Ale kit
Brew Enhancer 2
150g Crystal Grain
12g hops
Coopers yeast

Now before anyone jumps at me and says that the coopers yeast is rubbish, my aim was simply to see what would be produced, and to get the experience.

In a 10 litre pot, bring about 5 litres of water to 70 degrees and turn off the heat.
Tie the grain up loosely in a bag made of swiss voile and add to the water. This will bring the temp back to the required 68 degrees.
Put the lid on the pot and cover with as many blankets and towels as possible and leave for 60 minutes.
Take the grain bag out and sit in a strainer over a bowl. When the grain bag is cool enough, give it a good squeeze and add the liquid in the bowl to the pot.
Bring the pot with the grain flavoured liquid to a 30 minutes boil.
Near the end of the boil, add the BE2 and stir through
Add the liquid from the pot to the fermenter, and add water to about 10 litres.
Pour in Coopers kit and stir through.
Fill to 20 litres, put fermenter lid on and airlock, and sit on the verandah until cool enough to pitch the yeast.
When cool enough, put hops in tea cup, add some boiling water and cover with glad wrap for 10 minutes.
Pour hops and water from tea cup into fermenter and stir like a bugger to get as much aeration into it.
Pitch yeast.

I have done this process a number of times using Citra, Amarillo, Fuggles, Nelson Sauvin, Cascade and Pride of Ringwood hops, just to see what the hops add. From my experience, this is a nice step towards all grain, and with a 40 litre urn turning up tomorrow, that time will be upon me very soon.

The addition of grain and hops adds very little to the cost of the beer. I simply bought a kilo of crystal grain ($5), and 50 grams of each of the hops (about $5 each). What it adds to the taste of the beer is what's important, and I have been pleased with the results. No where near all grain quality but miles ahead of just the kit and sugar. My neighbour, the kit and sugar neighbour came over to taste my first beer, took one taste, and told me he was giving up homebrewing and that he would just come over to my place and drink mine.

Wow cool lockupgarage, wish I had one of those

Anyway. Ill try something like this and leave the bag for the pros. Do all the guys who make good AG beer use the BIAB methond or most use a 3V set up? It seems that 3V is best but I like my esky and don't want to cut it up.

Do I have too use an airlock, I keep reading about kittens or some shit from posts about a year or two back and I don't get it.

Why would someone harm a kitten, couldn't they just give it away or something. If that Butters guy killed a kitten then he needs help cos I love cats and as much as I find this beer thing confusing killing a kitten it just wrong.

Is that why he got banned?