How Big Is The Improvement?

[hando]

Hi there,

I wanted to start a discussion on improvements that one can make to the standard k&k with supplied yeast. I have been brewing for 18 months now and have experimented a little with using:

• liquid yeast
• boiling the kit ingedients
• going for better quality ingredients
• using a water filter
• controlling the fermentation temperature (fridge)
• adding hops

How would you rate the improvements which I have listed, based on their benefit to the finished product? I have found liquid yeast 15% better, temp controlled ferment 10% better

Is there any other cost effective ways that a home brewer can improve the beers? What do you think about racking into a secondary fermenter? How much improvement will that bring?

Cheers Hando

 

[Sammus]

I haven't the experience to comment on a lot of those, but in my opinion temp control makes a lot more difference than 10%. When I first started brewing half of what I produced was undrinkable, 1/4 just drinkable, and 1/4 quite tastey - I also happen to have started brewing in summer, and on the coast as well, so I was pushing 30-40C in those months, and all the undrinkable ones were brewed in this period (its a wonder I stuck with it )...With temperature control all my beers I'm guessing would have been of the tastey variety, since the flavour's that made most of them undrinkable were sulfurs and such which are attributed to fermentation temp - and I'm fairly pendantic with sanitisation so I'm thinking that wasn't the cause - at least it was very unlikely to be. Since I have had temp control everyone of my beers has been muchly enjoyed.

That said, I haven't tried liquid yeast (yet - I have one bubbling away as we speak though), but unless it turns my beer into $50 notes I don't think the improvment will be nearly as great as with the temp control!

 

[Mr Bond]

Make sure your can of goo is fresh as you can get.
Buy fresh hops ,not those tea bag things.
Start adding small amounts(100/250 gms) of cracked and steeped specialty grains for flava and body.
Keep using quality yeast and maintain correct temps.
2ndary will help to clear your beers and give the yeast a chance to clean up a few other flavas.

its prolly time to think about brewing with unhopped extracts and grains so you can control bitterness and hop character to suit your palate.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Don't forget, all the "brew enhancers" are garbage, still 1/2 sugar.

Malt, malt, malt :super:

PZ.

 

[dubzau]

Mainly there is greater variety in liquid yeasts, so if you are aiming for a particular style that requires a particular yeast, you will probably need to use liquid; however, I have had excellent results with dried yeasts, especially the versatile Nottingham Ale, the outstanding US56 American Ale, and even the much-maligned S04! A lager I brewed with 34/70 did particularly well in the AABC, so I don't know if I would agree that liquid yeast will necessarily give better results. Probably, but it depends. What I would say, however, is that the way you handle the yeast is critical - rehydration (if applicable), starter, pitching rate, pitching temperature, etc.

Temperature control is vitally important too. You can get away with a wider range for ales than lagers but it is still important. I've heard some people say that fermenting a lager at 14 makes no difference to the flavour, but I would dispute that - for a really clean lager you can't go that high.

Adding hops for flavour will improve your beer significantly in my opinion - even the tea bag ones will, tho if you can get good fresh hops, so much the better. Getting fresh hops is always a challenge for home brewers!

Those brew enhancer things are better than sucrose, but only just. Use two kits if you have to (or add unhopped extract plus hops).

The subject of boiling kits is controversial. I always boiled, but they are not made to be boiled.

Another controversial subject is racking to a secondary. Where a long lagering period is involved, then yes (but that depends on whether you keg or bottle to some extent, and whether you use finings, and other factors). For an ale, I would not waste my time and risk spoiling a good beer thru oxidation etc - leave it in the primary for a few days more (you won't get autolysis or any of that rubbish).

Use a water filter? That depends on your water and if you do a full boil or not, and what style of beer you are brewing.

 

[benno1973]

I'd rate it in this order:

1. adding hops: I've always found K&K brews to be flat and 2D, but add hops and suddenly you get a depth that you never knew was there!

2. controlling the fermentation temperature (fridge): Try drinking a beer that's been fermented at 30C and you'll know what I mean. Those fusel alcohols, sulphurs etc make a beer undrinkable...

3. going for better quality ingredients: try brewing a beer with stale hops. And then try the same beer with fresh hops. Fresh ingredients is what its all about.

4. liquid yeast: seems to give you a greater range of flavours. Having said that, there's some pretty good dried yeasts out there (US-56 is a great example).

5. boiling the kit ingedients: I always boil, but I'm not sure that this contributes dramatically to a better flavour.

6. using a water filter: same as above - I use a water filter, but I think I still brewed good beers without one. They just taste a little better now...

Just my 2c...

 

[Chris]

Racking into secondary is a biggy for most beer styles

 

[lpa]

Hey man, my best beers have been the ones I splashed out for ingredients on. You can get cheapo tins and avoid pricy stuff like spraymalt and skip adding hops altogether, but is it worth all that time and manly brew-love, what with the sanitizing and bottling and rinsing and peeking and testing blah blah to produce an ordinary (but often drinkable) beer after a month? Me thinks not. An NZ$20 can, 50/50 malt and dex, a good dry yeast, and at the bare minimum a hop tea-bag does the business for me at this point in my, ahem, 'journey'. Oh, that and temperature control. 50,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong: 18-22deg for those ales and it's bye bye twang. Rock 'n roll.

 

[Stuster]

Racking into secondary is a biggy for most beer styles

Don't agree with that one for most styles. I'm with Kaiser Soze on this one. Just leave it in primary for two weeks. The yeast will clear up the beer nicely. Some styles obviously do need a secondary like lagers. Try it.

Bud, I don't think getting fresh hops is that hard now. (Insert plug for sponsor here. Just don't let Ray see this thread. :lol: )

 

[Screwtop]

Don't know about percentages, I would rank the items as follows.

Perfect a Sanitisation Routine
Use Good Yeast, Dry or Liquid
Fermentation Temperature Control
Pitch Sufficient Yeast
Experiment with Flavour and Aroma Hops
Experiment with partial mashes/Steeping grains
Use a water filter
Bulk Prime or better Keg your beer

 

[Mr Bond]

Don't know about percentages, I would rank the items as follows.

Perfect a Sanitisation Routine
Use Good Yeast, Dry or Liquid
Fermentation Temperature Control
Pitch Sufficient Yeast
Experiment with Flavour and Aroma Hops
Experiment with partial mashes/Steeping grains
Use a water filter
Bulk Prime or better Keg your beer

And aerate to give the yeasties a good start

 

[InCider]

Screwtop gave me some liquid yeast that was so angry I had to pitch it in different suburb and ask it's permission to sleep with my wife. And even then, Nottingham set me some ground rules. :blink:

To me as an extractor, the discovery of yeast has made me realise I can make good beers with this method.

Thanks to ST for the helping hand.

Cheers,

InCider. :beerbang:

 

[goatherder]

What Screwtop said and Brauluver added.

The first 4 of Screwtop's and Brauluver's addition will account for 90% of your improvements, simple as that. Sanitation and fermentation are everything.

After that, you are just playing with flavours and finding out what you like.

 

[Daniel.lear]

In My opinion ( and its only an opinion ), <_< when i started brewing one of the biggest improvements i made was racking to a secondary fermenter for both ales and lagers. This was closely followed by good temp control and using the best fresh hops, malt and yeast (dry or liquid) you can get your hands on.

Of course not one of these things alone will create the finest of beers, it's bringing together all of these techniques to produce a beer that you are happy with and enjoy. :chug:

 

[dubzau]

Racking into secondary is a biggy for most beer styles

Don't agree with that one for most styles. I'm with Kaiser Soze on this one. Just leave it in primary for two weeks. The yeast will clear up the beer nicely. Some styles obviously do need a secondary like lagers. Try it.

Bud, I don't think getting fresh hops is that hard now. (Insert plug for sponsor here. Just don't let Ray see this thread. :lol: )

OK, I'm going to order some and see for myself. The last pils I brewed used NZ saaz, and while NZ hops are great, they aren't the same as Czech Saaz, which I haven't bought for a few months. I'd be surprised if the Saaz that makes its way here is as good as what the big breweries in Europe get - but I hope I'm proved wrong. I've had good beers ruined by late additions of bad hops.

btw. totally agree with you about racking - the perceived improvement can - in most cases - be achieved by leaving in the primary a bit longer.

As for water filters, where I live they are a waste of time - maybe a good thing in Adelaide!

 

[Adamt]

As for water filters, where I live they are a waste of time - maybe a good thing in Adelaide!

Adelaide-brewed stout is the only way you can drink a black liquid and still whiten your teeth! Gotta love the fluoride.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

IMHO Ales do not need to go into secondary (unless it's bottles or kegs) :beerbang:

PZ.

 

[AngelTearsOnMyTongue]

What do you think about racking into a secondary fermenter? How much improvement will that bring?

Cheers Hando

I started racking to secondary earlier this year following a thread I participated in on this forum (Do a search its a ripper discussion) and am now very happy with the clarity of my beer. (nb: Over this past winter I have brewed many largers, a Pils and a stout(in fermenter))

Personally, adding hops and steeping grain has added the greatest improvements to my brews. On the other hand I dont think I could be bothered filtering water for brewing but I think the tap water in Melbourne is pretty good.

I also normally do not bother preparing my yeasts (I just chuck em in and have never had a problem) however I am currently waiting on an Imperial stout sample that I took a SG reading from to cool back down from boiling so I can put my EC-118 yeast into it at about 35oC. So far I have flung in about four sachets of coopers yeast over the last weeks and its stuck on 1040 ( from 1080). I put in a sachet of EC-118 Wednesday night and still there has been little movement. Not sure what next.

ATOMT

 

[MHB]

I get to say this at least 20 times a day so once more wont hurt:-

The four basic ingredients in great beer are

Hygiene
Quality ingredients
Temperature control
Patience.

Everything else comes after you get the basics right.

MHB

 

[dubzau]

I also normally do not bother preparing my yeasts (I just chuck em in and have never had a problem) however I am currently waiting on an Imperial stout sample that I took a SG reading from to cool back down from boiling so I can put my EC-118 yeast into it at about 35oC. So far I have flung in about four sachets of coopers yeast over the last weeks and its stuck on 1040 ( from 1080). I put in a sachet of EC-118 Wednesday night and still there has been little movement. Not sure what next.

ATOMT

Interestingly, I am having a similar problem with a stuck - or at least slow - fermentation. However, I pitched a big starter that was at high krausen. ???
You say you don't "prepare yeasts". I'm curious - do you usually use dry or liquid yeasts, and what temperature do you pitch a lager at?
btw. one thing that nobody has mentioned is adequate wort aeration. Inadequate aeration can affect yeast performance and can be one cause of stuck fermenation.