Maltzilla Gap size?

[Ken Loves Craft Beer]

Bought a maltzilla, just wondering what a good gap size would be to start at. Just in general for ale malts, but if you change it for wheat etc keen to know what that setting is too. Thanks.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

All grains aren't symmetrical so the crush is up to you and especially the unit being used. I crush mine on the finer side to make sure almost all the grains get cracked. As you have got the Brewzilla G4 I would keep the crush coarse, never seen so many complaints by users about stuck mashes and poor temperature control on those units. Got to be the worst SVB on the market.
Just have to run some grains through until you are happy with the crush.

 

[Meddo]

All grains aren't symmetrical so the crush is up to you and especially the unit being used. I crush mine on the finer side to make sure almost all the grains get cracked. As you have got the Brewzilla G4 I would keep the crush coarse, never seen so many complaints by users about stuck mashes and poor temperature control on those units. Got to be the worst SVB on the market.
Just have to run some grains through until you are happy with the crush.

There's nothing wrong with the recirculation on these units. Hardware-wise they're quite a good system. I've got no idea on the temp control etc though cos I've removed the controllers (and pumps) from mine and drive them with my own control panel and DC pumps.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

There's nothing wrong with the recirculation on these units. Hardware-wise they're quite a good system. I've got no idea on the temp control etc though cos I've removed the controllers (and pumps) from mine and drive them with my own control panel and DC pumps.

Proves my point somewhat. Nothing should need to be altered, have a look at what the users are saying, how many who have purchased these units are using them as a BIAB until. Even Gash Slugg recommended not dashing out to purchase one.
They are too narrow and have barely any dead space below the basket. The poster would have been better off buying the previous model.

 

[Meddo]

Proves my point somewhat. Nothing should need to be altered, have a look at what the users are saying, how many who have purchased these units are using them as a BIAB until. Even Gash Slugg recommended not dashing out to purchase one.
They are too narrow and have barely any dead space below the basket. The poster would have been better off buying the previous model.

No it doesn't prove your point at all, I bought mine because I purely wanted the stainless components (kettle, elements and malt pipe). I actually asked KL to sell me a dumb version sans controller but sadly they said no. I wouldn't have bought any of the other 1V systems in the market because they don't suit my needs either modified or off the shelf.

I modified mine as soon as they appeared in my brewery based on my own engineering principles and because I already have a superior brewery control system than 'RAPT' and better pumps (including true pwm speed control), not due to performance of the system. As I did with earlier Gen3.somethings and digiboil vessels. The biggest differentiator is the centre drain, which although far from perfect in the BZ implementation is still far better for CIP than a flat vessel with pickup tube like comparable systems.

What does dead space gain you - genuine question cos I can't think of a benefit myself? I use these vessels as the basis of my own bespoke brewery largely because they do have very little deadspace relative to standalone dished kettles like the cheeky peak ones.

If there were designed off the shelf with the extension built in then yeah they'd be be too tall and narrow for new brewers, but as they are they're fine, surely. If you can't dial back the flow slightly (not that I've had to myself) to deal with a slower recirc well that's not really the problem of the brewery.

Which single vessel systems have better geometry, and why is it better? The perforated bottoms of the malt pipes, although I haven't bothered to measure cos I've never felt the need, visually look identical to previous versions of the BrewZilla/Robobrew and standalone false bottoms that I've seen and owned in terms of hole size and spacing. The height and radius of the vessels also seem to be comparable to other 1V systems. I'm far from a KL fanboi but I'm genuinely baffled how the BrewZilla would perform any worse than a Guten or Grainfather or any other comparable system as a recirculating vessel. Disclaimer: completely ignoring the RAPT control system because I haven't used it and don't want to. If your argument is based on RAPT issues then go your hardest.

 

[Meddo]

Just realised I've addressed your stuck mashes point @wide eyed and legless - which I'm baffled by - but not your temp control point.

The 'heart exchanger disk', despite the daft name, is one of the best ideas KL have come up with IMO. The crazy thing though, is that the temp sensor is in completely the wrong position to take advantage of it, being on the outside edge of the vessel. This picks up the temp of the wort after it's flowed all the way through the malt pipe, which means that the lag on the temp input of the controller driving the elements is far too long. It should be at the centre of the vessel adjacent to the pump intake, so that it picks up the temp of the wort after it's been heated by the elements, reducing lag to the controller input. In my (modified) system I've got the PID temperature input located in the drain pipe itself which gives fantastic temperature control during mashing. So it's certainly conceivable to me that temp control off the shelf would be up the ****.

 

[Jayvan90]

Bought a maltzilla, just wondering what a good gap size would be to start at. Just in general for ale malts, but if you change it for wheat etc keen to know what that setting is too. Thanks.

Stick a credit card in there Ken as a starting point - if you get too much flour go a little wider - you want the husk somewhat intact and the grain cracked into pieces rather than smashed into fines … you also need to pay attention to the speed at which you mill slow and steady wins the race

 

[bdkelly.nz]

That's what I was told but a credit card is only about 0.9mm and it was way to fine. Gladfields recommend 1.45mm which is quite a lot different from 0.9 . That's where I have my mill set, 1.45mm, and it seems to be just right.
Of course other maltsters might have different size grains so I guess it's horses for courses.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

No it doesn't prove your point at all, I bought mine because I purely wanted the stainless components (kettle, elements and malt pipe). I actually asked KL to sell me a dumb version sans controller but sadly they said no. I wouldn't have bought any of the other 1V systems in the market because they don't suit my needs either modified or off the shelf.

I modified mine as soon as they appeared in my brewery based on my own engineering principles and because I already have a superior brewery control system than 'RAPT' and better pumps (including true pwm speed control), not due to performance of the system. As I did with earlier Gen3.somethings and digiboil vessels. The biggest differentiator is the centre drain, which although far from perfect in the BZ implementation is still far better for CIP than a flat vessel with pickup tube like comparable systems.

What does dead space gain you - genuine question cos I can't think of a benefit myself? I use these vessels as the basis of my own bespoke brewery largely because they do have very little deadspace relative to standalone dished kettles like the cheeky peak ones.

If there were designed off the shelf with the extension built in then yeah they'd be be too tall and narrow for new brewers, but as they are they're fine, surely. If you can't dial back the flow slightly (not that I've had to myself) to deal with a slower recirc well that's not really the problem of the brewery.

Which single vessel systems have better geometry, and why is it better? The perforated bottoms of the malt pipes, although I haven't bothered to measure cos I've never felt the need, visually look identical to previous versions of the BrewZilla/Robobrew and standalone false bottoms that I've seen and owned in terms of hole size and spacing. The height and radius of the vessels also seem to be comparable to other 1V systems. I'm far from a KL fanboi but I'm genuinely baffled how the BrewZilla would perform any worse than a Guten or Grainfather or any other comparable system as a recirculating vessel. Disclaimer: completely ignoring the RAPT control system because I haven't used it and don't want to. If your argument is based on RAPT issues then go your hardest.

But if you didn't use it straight out of the box you wouldn't know how well it works. Temperature and recirculation combined is what keeps an even temperature. The flow needs to be open fully to get the hot wort back to the top, a lack of dead space beneath the bottom of the grain basket makes keeping the return flow open fully a risk. Even on my Guten and Hop Cat if I have any adjunct in the grain bill I have to keep a careful eye on the level of the wort.
My mash temperature stabilises throughout the grain bed very quickly especially with the Hop Cat and its wider girth. I have two probes in the top of the grain bed 150 mm long

 

[Meddo]

But if you didn't use it straight out of the box you wouldn't know how well it works. Temperature and recirculation combined is what keeps an even temperature. The flow needs to be open fully to get the hot wort back to the top, a lack of dead space beneath the bottom of the grain basket makes keeping the return flow open fully a risk. Even on my Guten and Hop Cat if I have any adjunct in the grain bill I have to keep a careful eye on the level of the wort.
My mash temperature stabilises throughout the grain bed very quickly especially with the Hop Cat and its wider girth. I have two probes in the top of the grain bed 150 mm long
View attachment 124446

You're right in terms of temp control, I don't know how well that works or not out of the box. I did focus on only one of your two objections last night, my mistake.

I can kinda see where you're coming from in terms of deadspace, but don't forget there's also wort surrounding the malt pipe to act as a buffer. Tbh my preference is less deadspace to increase the extract capacity of the vessel, and keep an eye on things until you know the performance of the system in relation to your grists. I know that with my standard crush of an all malt grist for a standard-ish to slightly higher gravity wort I can run the pump wide open (a much higher capacity pump than the standard one btw) without risking a stuck mash. If I want to brew a bigger beer or a wheat for instance I'll just keep an eye on it. Wanting more deadspace seems like a personal preference of wanting more of a buffer, rather than the system being objectively a bad design compared to one with more deadspace. Just means you might need to react a little quicker if things do start to stick.

 

[Grok]

Why does no one mention malt conditioning, I don't know why you wouldn't do it to be honest as it is really easy to do and so effective!