Hazy

[pmolou]

I'm an extract brewer and usually have clear beers then lately i started getting chill haze which i'm not to fussed about but the last 2 brews iv done iv had the beer cloudy the whole time haven't changed anything in the way i brew at all although both beers which came out cloudy were from the same yeast cake

not massively fussed although wouldn't mind knowing hwy its happening could it be excess starches?? but if so how as i haven't changed anything in my brewing proccess

advice would be much appreciated cheers

 

[haysie]

If you havent changed anything, I am tipping infection, an obvious sign would be the beer is cloudy. Taste, aroma?

 

[pmolou]

hmmn yer i thought that also but flavour wise they are some of the best beers i've made and don't have any sign of infection as far as taste goes

 

[buttersd70]

Are you sure i t's chill haze, and not yeast haze?

Way to check...pour half a glass when warm. If it's only chill haze, then it should be clear. If it's not, then put the glass in the fridge for a day or 2. Then check it again. If it's now clear, it was yeast. If it's still hazy, take it out, and let it warm up, then check again. If it's clears, it was chill haze. If it's still hazy...then it's both....

If the yeast was reused, my money would initially be on yeast haze. Some yeasts become less flocculant on subsequent pitches, particularly if you massively over pitch by using the whole yeast cake.

 

[Bribie G]

In my kit n kilo days I got spectacularly clear beers until I started using light dried malt extract or Brew enhancer 2, also containing LDME, and they were chill hazed to buggery on every occasion. What adjuncts are you using for your kits? When I visit my KnK mate round the corner if he's done a kit with sugar only it turns out looking like it's just been poured at the pub. He kegs and serves at around 3 degrees, ouch.

If it's the LDME causing the problem then Polyclar is the answer, as well as being cheap.

Come to think of it an early brew of mine that turned out diamond sparkling was a Morgans Lager plus a can of Thomas Cooper's liquid malt extract. I have a hypothesis based on a hunch that liquid malt extracts sourced from companies such as Morgans and Coopers are going to give better results than LDME which is actually produced to go into cakes and bikkies and confectionery and we get it as home brewers because it's conveniently there in the trade available to us, but not purpose made to our requirements.

 

[tcraig20]

In my kit n kilo days I got spectacularly clear beers until I started using light dried malt extract or Brew enhancer 2, also containing LDME, and they were chill hazed to buggery on every occasion.

Havent had that problem with K&K or K&B, but have run across it with a few of my extract brews. I put it down to the LDME too.

 

[phonos]

I have made extract brews with ~100%coopers liquid extract with no haze, but the dry extract I get from my LHBS I seem to get cloudy beers if I use a large proportion (>50%). At smaller proportions (e.g. <= 1kg in a kit brew) the haze isn't noticeable.

 

[Fourstar]

If the yeast was reused, my money would initially be on yeast haze. Some yeasts become less flocculant on subsequent pitches, particularly if you massively over pitch by using the whole yeast cake.

Agree 110%!

This would be the source of your problems i'd say. Also if you repitch you do run the risk of this happening, especially if you leave it to completly try and floc out in primary. What happens is you allow the slow yeast to eventually floc out into your trub, you then bottle/keg that batch and when you repitch you end up taking across a bulk of the slow buggers and they end up not wanting to flocc out.

 

[Leigh]

In my kit n kilo days I got spectacularly clear beers until I started using light dried malt extract or Brew enhancer 2, also containing LDME, and they were chill hazed to buggery on every occasion. What adjuncts are you using for your kits? When I visit my KnK mate round the corner if he's done a kit with sugar only it turns out looking like it's just been poured at the pub. He kegs and serves at around 3 degrees, ouch.

If it's the LDME causing the problem then Polyclar is the answer, as well as being cheap.

Come to think of it an early brew of mine that turned out diamond sparkling was a Morgans Lager plus a can of Thomas Cooper's liquid malt extract. I have a hypothesis based on a hunch that liquid malt extracts sourced from companies such as Morgans and Coopers are going to give better results than LDME which is actually produced to go into cakes and bikkies and confectionery and we get it as home brewers because it's conveniently there in the trade available to us, but not purpose made to our requirements.

I use LDME all the time (but not the coopers variety), the only haze I've had was when I've accidentally steeped specialty grains at higher temps (doh)

 

[buttersd70]

What happens is you allow the slow yeast to eventually floc out into your trub, you then bottle/keg that batch and when you repitch you end up taking across a bulk of the slow buggers and they end up not wanting to flocc out.

zachary. Which is one of the reasons I prefer top skimming true top croppers.

Is strong, like bull. :lol:

 

[Phoney]

Excuse my ignorance, but whats wrong with cloudy beer?

 

[bum]

I think he's more worried about haze appearing when he hasn't changed his process?

 

[breadenhound]

I reckon you should just drink it and all your problems will be solved. Plus butters is right, the yeasties do start to mutate after a few generations and it makes sense that their flocculation capabilities would change with subsequent pitches.

If the yeast was reused, my money would initially be on yeast haze. Some yeasts become less flocculant on subsequent pitches, particularly if you massively over pitch by using the whole yeast cake.

 

[discoloop]

Excuse my ignorance, but whats wrong with cloudy beer?

Short answer is nothing; long answer is lots.

Cloudy beer will taste fine, but when you've brewed a beautiful pale lager and it looks like cloudy apple juice it's a bit disappointing. Still fine to drink yourself, but less fun to proudly present to friends and family.

 

[Phoney]

Short answer is nothing; long answer is lots.

Cloudy beer will taste fine, but when you've brewed a beautiful pale lager and it looks like cloudy apple juice it's a bit disappointing. Still fine to drink yourself, but less fun to proudly present to friends and family.

I see. So if your finings fail what you really need is a set of these:

 

[muckey]

also clearing beer, finings and especially polyclar remove some compounds that are detrimental to long term storage of beer.

cheap option drink faster

 

[Pennywise]

I see. So if your finings fail what you really need is a set of these:

Or just serve the beer with a side serve of cement :lol:

 

[Fourstar]

zachary. Which is one of the reasons I prefer top skimming true top croppers.
Is strong, like bull.

Butters, do you adjust your pitching rates when using top cropping yeast or just guesstimate your ml vol for your pitch?

I see. So if your finings fail what you really need is a set of these:

Theres nothing wrong with cloudy beer. it may just taste green or 'not to style' I'd prefer to drink a crystal clear pilsner over one thats full of yeast, protien and trub.

Oh, there is a limit to cloudy beer. Ttake the last pint from a naturally conditioned ale keg that hasnt been disturbed. I had this from a Hargraves Hill ESB keg. It was presented to me with the colour of grey clay and as viscous as sump oil when it should be fireburst orange. The beer smelt like the trub from the bottom of a fermenter. The bartenter looked at me unsure, wondering if i would or would not accept the pint. I sure as hell didn't. Then they tried to explain to me 'it should be served like that' and its 'an aquired taste' Suuure! Maybe next time i can bottle up some trub and they can sell it for me.

 

[buttersd70]

Butters, do you adjust your pitching rates when using top cropping yeast or just guesstimate your ml vol for your pitch?

For the most part, I guestimate. Especially when it's a recipe / yeast combo I've done before. But if you like to use jamils calculator (or similar), just whack the slider on the non-yeast percentage down, cos you haven't got any trub mixed in :icon_cheers: Otherwise, just treat it as you normally would for any slurry. (except for the harvesting...you need to keep venting the slurry, cos being top cropped, it's usually skimmed before krausen drops, so it's usually before fg is fully stable, so it will continue to ferment out any beer that gets in with it.)

 

[Nick JD]

+1 on the LDME ... especially if it's confectionary malt. Some of the stuff I used to get had really big crystals and it was quite yellow. Would leave a honeyish/candy aftertaste in the beer (which could be quite nice in some ales) - but VERY CLOUDY! An all dried brew I did was twice as cloudy so it was definately the LDME.