Drinking my first saison...

[mje1980]

That'd work fine for a saison I think

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

How about more wheat? My typical pale is 50:50 pale wheat, could do 50:50 pils/wheat temp stepped or would the wheat stick out in the saison in an inappropriate way?

 

[manticle]

Wheat is fine in a saison. Can't remember my old grist but it wasn't 50:50. Maybe 75 pils:25 wheat? Anyway I think it's something you could play with. The hero is the yeast.

 

[manticle]

This is mine: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1513-saison/

Lower alcohol refresher, bit more like a traditional/historical saison. Could easily be scaled up to make a stronger version. Will probably try without biscuit malt this year.

 

[verysupple]

I also picked up a couple of bottles of Bocq Saison, 1858 or something. Anyone tried these beers, or other saisons to recommend?

I'm a little late to the scene here, but I had a Bocq recently and enjoyed it. It's very different to the Dupont. After the first whiff and taste I thought, "Wow, I know that smell/taste from somewhere else." It took a minute or two but then it hit me. It's like a way over the top phenolic Hoegaarden wit. Kind of like if you did everything you could to boost the esters and phenolics from Wy3944.

 

[Tahoose]

Why the 12% wheat? Is that to find a nice medium malt body land between a saison and a pale ale? Would 100% pils result in not enough body for the pale? Have you tried 12% before for a saison and pale or guestimating?

A little of topic but the grain bill was for the mountain goat steam ale clone and after seeing a 90/10 pils/wheat recommended for a saison, I figured I could do multiple brews from the same batch.

An idea for the saison/pale brew, bitter with east kent goldings,

saison cube - cube hop with goldings or saaz
pale - cube hop with galaxy & cascade for 35ibu (calculate as 20 mins) steep 300g medium crystal and add when pitching. Dry hop if you wish. Should get you something leaning towards a LCPA.

 

[drunken_snail]

The yeast is the hero here, i use the danstar belle saison yeast it has been great. The belle saison yeast is a great convertor of sugar and will go nice and dry.
The 3 saisons i have made have been well recieved.
Yeast : Belle Saison dry Yeast
Hops: Hallertau 4.8% 70g 60 min and 30g 0 min.

Adj: Sugar 1 KG 15 min
Extract: DME 2kg 60 min + Wheat DME 1kg 15 min

Grain: None all extract.

Carbonation: 3CO2

OG 1.068 to FG 1.004

Fermentation temp/time
start 22C
Ramp by 2C for 8 days
28C for 6 days drop to 17C while i was at work
then bottled 2 weeks later when i got back.

tasting notes - soft bready malts, moderate hop bitterness, prominent fruity esters of banana n pear, spicey peppery phenols.

If you are from western australia you may have heard of the backyard to bottle comp run by gage roads. this was the winner and gage will make a modified version of this next year. as a once off.

There are alot of saisons to try, it is good, most of my purchases lately have been saisons.

Dupont series bon voeux nice, la sierne series i like the normal n the super, stillwater, fantome biere artisanale sur lie was nice, bocq(very nice), 8 wired i didnt like as much, thunderhead road saison was great, Little creatures saison is great, James squire saison(perth) not so good. Exit saison was great, St feuillien was a good one. emelisse was good. Saison rue was a good one made with rye. Mornington, bridgeroad, sixpoint i have had but dont really remember. and Silly Saison isnt a saison. Thats all i remember sure there were others i have tried.

I have the farmhouse ales book and i will sometime in the future will try to make a biere de garde. Havnt been able to try many commercial versions. Jenlain werent good(but will have to try again when i find it) stillwater was good, 3 monts very nice. Bridge road was good

 

[mje1980]

Use 3725 for your beire de garde. It's a Great yeast IMHO

 

[Adr_0]

Well I made one, a little while ago. Just did all malt to 1041, 65°C mash temp and pitched a fairly healthy 3724. Got down to 1020 in a few days and then threw in 400g of clear candi syrup. It didn't re-krausen, but then got down to 1010 when I tasted it a few days ago, so I would say it's getting along... will see in a week or two though I guess.

It started at 18, I let it gently creep to 22 over a couple of days and then threw it out into the Gladstone weather... under the house anyway.

Wow, what a yeast. I did a 60, 30, 15 hop with Czech saaz and Styrian Goldings. I also added 0.75g/L of fresh orange peel (half of what another recipe suggested). Taste is amazing but obviously hard to tell as it will get dry and sharp at FG. Planning to bottle in some DuPont bottles, 750mL Belgian bottles (corked or tirage cap - haven't decided yet) and do a few Xmas gifts... all to myself of course. And a few to some old brewing mates....

3724 I have heard some bad things about (stalling) but so far I can vouch for adding sugar after a couple of days of high krausen as it has 81% attenuated after 7-8 days.

 

[drtomc]

Saison Dupont is one of my favourite beers. As others have said, it's all about the yeast. It is my most brewed style, and I use pilsner malt with a slice of wheat malt, mainly for head retention, and some sugar/candi to get the alcohol and dryness. I have used 3724. The Belle Saison wasn't available when I was last brewing (I'm just back to it after a couple of years off), so I'll certainly be trying that soon.

Saison is a fairly broad style. Of the commercial ones, I reckon the Bridge Road one is most similar to the Dupont.

As others have pointed out, you want a really fermentable wort, so mash long and low, and don't be afraid to use some sugar. I tend to brew a pale one, then on the yeast cake pitch a second batch to which I add some dark candi sugar, which gives a sweeter more complex finish, which is different but also good. My mates are fairly evenly split on which they prefer.

My 2c,
T.

 

[mje1980]

If you're used to 3724 don't bother with belle saison IMHO. Nothing wrong with belle saison but 3724 has much more character IMHO

 

[Adr_0]

Just a pic of the first one I did. Tastes amazing, very happy with it. Had a theoretical OG of 1053 and has finished at 1002, so ~7.3% ABV by the time I carbonated with 12g/L dextrose (should be 3.3-3.4volCO2).

The recipe was:

66.3% Pilsner (Dingemann)
18.4% Munich II (Weyermann)
0.6% Carafa Sp 1 for colour
14.7% Adro's special clear candi syrup - SG without the sugar was 1041, added at 1.021 (after 20 points of fermentation)
1.053 original gravity (theoretical)

17.1IBU of Czech Saaz at 60min (actually a touch of Northern Brewer was in here to hit my target IBU)
10IBU Czech Saaz at 30min
3.7IBU Styrian Goldings at 15min
Theoretically 30-31IBU

Added 0.75g/L fresh orange peel (Navel orange) with 5min left in the boil.

I fermented with 3724. Had a healthy pitch at just under 19°C, then rose to 23°C gently over 2 days, then let rip in Gladstone's summer for the rest. The candi syrup was added with some krausen left, but it didn't re-kraus at all. Total fermentation time was 20 days.

The beer below:


Smell is very Dupont, spicy, peppery but with some slight breadiness probably from the Munich II and very slight funkiness more noticeable when it warms. Taste is amazing... orange is actually hard to notice but it's bitter, peppery, lemony, spicy, slightly flowery (the candi syrup?) and is very dry and tart and then the funk comes in. Very very drinkable, goes down very easily.

I would call this a success...

 

[NickyJ]

I had a crack at a saison recently and overall have declared it a failure. I'm putting it down to it being too hot up here (the banana flavour in this beer was huge) and that the brew shop didn't have enough pilsner malt so I went half pilsner, half lager.

Looking forward to having another go when it's a bit cooler. I have no temp control at this point.

 

[indica86]

so I went half pilsner, half lager.

Umm what?
While I have seen pilsner malt I have not seen lager malt.
How is it different?

 

[Adr_0]

I had a crack at a saison recently and overall have declared it a failure. I'm putting it down to it being too hot up here (the banana flavour in this beer was huge) and that the brew shop didn't have enough pilsner malt so I went half pilsner, half lager.
Looking forward to having another go when it's a bit cooler. I have no temp control at this point.

Which yeast did you use?