Drinking my first saison...

[mje1980]

I don't, I just warm it up and wait. I've tried wyeast 3725 beire de garde, the wyeast farmhouse ale, wyeast 3711, and belle saison, and while the Belgian saison takes a long time I totally rate it. The others have made great beers, for my preference I like the 3724.


I believe dupont is 100% dingemans pils and a long low rising mash, from 40 something to mash out over 2 hours. I'm going to try one with a bit if dextrose, but I'm only going to use 10% on a 1.045 saison so I'll just add it in the kettle. You could add it when it stalls though, it might help it kick back off.

Add the Munich, but it's such a yeast driven style it won't make much difference I believe. I've added spelt to a few, and even used Maris otter and struggled to pick up the flavour over the yeast character.

 

[tazman1967]

I have a 8 Wired Saison Savin clone in the fermenter atm, I got all the details off their website http://8wired.co.nz/~oowired/our-brews/saison-sauvin-0.
Smells pretty good in the fermenter.
As for an American style saison, I think that it is best to stay away from the "grassy" hops, they clash with the saison esters imho.
I have used.. Centennial, Citra, Chinook, Mosaic, Belma, these are just some of my faves..
Experiment, and see how you go..

 

[pk.sax]

Agree 110% with mje.

It you want saison saison, just pils malt a low dose of styrian goldings and 3724 does a beautiful job. Decoction mashing can help it really dry out to the 1.002 ish range its fabled for. Or just tip in a kilo of sugar in the boil and boil hard.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Agree 110% with mje.

It you want saison saison, just pils malt a low dose of styrian goldings and 3724 does a beautiful job. Decoction mashing can help it really dry out to the 1.002 ish range its fabled for. Or just tip in a kilo of sugar in the boil and boil hard.

Would an appropriately stepped mash achieve same results without the darkening achieved from decoction? As the caramelised flavour from decoction may not be desired?

I double batch now and don't really want to double batch a saison, but to ensure getting max out of a brew day, could a simple pils grist with Styrian be left as one cube for a standard Saison, then the second cube cube hopped as a pale ale/quaffer? Haven't used Styrian before so unsure if used in small quantities how much clash of flavours would be expected if say I cube hopped with citra for the pale ale in large quantities?

 

[mje1980]

Step mash will be fine. Make sure you favour the low 60's rest for attenuation. That'd work well I think. If you were fancy you could separately steep some med crystal ( just a small amount, 100g or so ) then add that to your pale ale cube ( before filling ) for a landlord type dry hoppy pale.

 

[Tahoose]

I am about to do just this;

Simple grist 88 %pils 12% Wheat

65 ltr batch
No kettle additions

cube 1 - cube hoped with galaxy & citra for 23 IBU's
Cube 2 - 20ltrs from kettle + 5 litres from separate mini boil. Mini boil to 30 IBU for saison.
Small Cube- remainder of wort cube hopped with Amarillo, this will get mango extract at some point.

 

[kaiserben]

Below is a little info that some people might find useful.

Michael Jackson wrote this when visiting the Dupont brewery (it seems there are a few typos),

With a matter-of-factness that matched his farmer-like appearance and gait, M. Rosier answered my question about his procedures. Each question was answered, but without much elaboration.
He told me that he used only pale malt in Saison Dupont, that his water was hard, and that the hops were mainly Kent Goldings, with some Hallertaus. He made two additions in the kettle, but no longer dry-hopped. When I first tasted these beers, about 15 years ago, I thought they had even more character, and perhaps that was why.
M. Rosier said that, after primary fermentation, there was a week or two of warm-conditioning in a metal tank. This was followed by centrifuging, re-yea sting (with a different culture), priming, and a good
fortnight of maturation in bottle.

He felt that his beers were best at between three and eight weeks after leaving the brewery, but said some customers preferred them at six months.

Some tasting notes of a few saisons also included in the full article.

Source: http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000017.html

 

[Adr_0]

Cool.

Drinking the Bocq now. Similar colour, but definitely some wheat malt in this - in the appearance, smell and flavour. Very slightly darker, just bordering on orange but still pale/straw coloured. Smell is almost like a Hoegaarden with orange, lemon, cloves and some wheat. The taste is a lot more subdued and not as dry as the Dupont. It has a very feint funk and balanced bitterness and a nice citrus flavour. This has a lot of Hoegaarden character, with a lot of citrus/wheat flavour and a moderate (not dry) lemon finish with nice hops and a subtle spiciness. Very drinkable.

The Dupont is very assertive, complex, dry and peppery while the Bocq is closer to a Hoegaarden but still with nice lemon, spice and bitterness.

Cool. Saison d'like I do.

EDIT: After a few more sips, the Bocq does have a little funk in the aftertaste. Very drinkable.

 

[anthonyUK]

I had Fantome Printemps Saison last weekend
After the initial lemon freshness there is a smoothness and lightness that is pretty amazing in an 8% beer.
Generally though I found it pretty un-Saison-like but an enjoyable beer nontheless albeit one that cost £8 :huh:

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I am about to do just this;

Simple grist 88 %pils 12% Wheat

65 ltr batch
No kettle additions

cube 1 - cube hoped with galaxy & citra for 23 IBU's
Cube 2 - 20ltrs from kettle + 5 litres from separate mini boil. Mini boil to 30 IBU for saison.
Small Cube- remainder of wort cube hopped with Amarillo, this will get mango extract at some point.

Why the 12% wheat? Is that to find a nice medium malt body land between a saison and a pale ale? Would 100% pils result in not enough body for the pale? Have you tried 12% before for a saison and pale or guestimating?

Step mash will be fine. Make sure you favour the low 60's rest for attenuation. That'd work well I think. If you were fancy you could separately steep some med crystal ( just a small amount, 100g or so ) then add that to your pale ale cube ( before filling ) for a landlord type dry hoppy pale.

I've used the Budvar stepped profile twice now first was a budvar lager (still waiting in cube) and second a chestnut pilsner which got down from 1.052 to 1.006 with Nottingham (attempting faux lager for a house beer I can brew quick).

Budvar step profile is 20@50C, 40@60C and 20@70C with a 15 mashout at 78C, so it seems that is a decent profile for a very fermentable wort. Do you think sticking with what I know for this saison/pale ale double batch would be ideal with that Budvar temp step profile, or should the middle rest be a couple degrees higher? I figure the Saison yeast should munch down a bit further and I could use WLP001 or US05 for the pale ale which may not get down as far and if so next time try the med. crystal steeped into cube?

 

[mje1980]

That'd work fine for a saison I think

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

How about more wheat? My typical pale is 50:50 pale wheat, could do 50:50 pils/wheat temp stepped or would the wheat stick out in the saison in an inappropriate way?

 

[manticle]

Wheat is fine in a saison. Can't remember my old grist but it wasn't 50:50. Maybe 75 pils:25 wheat? Anyway I think it's something you could play with. The hero is the yeast.

 

[manticle]

This is mine: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1513-saison/

Lower alcohol refresher, bit more like a traditional/historical saison. Could easily be scaled up to make a stronger version. Will probably try without biscuit malt this year.

 

[verysupple]

I also picked up a couple of bottles of Bocq Saison, 1858 or something. Anyone tried these beers, or other saisons to recommend?

I'm a little late to the scene here, but I had a Bocq recently and enjoyed it. It's very different to the Dupont. After the first whiff and taste I thought, "Wow, I know that smell/taste from somewhere else." It took a minute or two but then it hit me. It's like a way over the top phenolic Hoegaarden wit. Kind of like if you did everything you could to boost the esters and phenolics from Wy3944.

 

[Tahoose]

Why the 12% wheat? Is that to find a nice medium malt body land between a saison and a pale ale? Would 100% pils result in not enough body for the pale? Have you tried 12% before for a saison and pale or guestimating?

A little of topic but the grain bill was for the mountain goat steam ale clone and after seeing a 90/10 pils/wheat recommended for a saison, I figured I could do multiple brews from the same batch.

An idea for the saison/pale brew, bitter with east kent goldings,

saison cube - cube hop with goldings or saaz
pale - cube hop with galaxy & cascade for 35ibu (calculate as 20 mins) steep 300g medium crystal and add when pitching. Dry hop if you wish. Should get you something leaning towards a LCPA.

 

[drunken_snail]

The yeast is the hero here, i use the danstar belle saison yeast it has been great. The belle saison yeast is a great convertor of sugar and will go nice and dry.
The 3 saisons i have made have been well recieved.
Yeast : Belle Saison dry Yeast
Hops: Hallertau 4.8% 70g 60 min and 30g 0 min.

Adj: Sugar 1 KG 15 min
Extract: DME 2kg 60 min + Wheat DME 1kg 15 min

Grain: None all extract.

Carbonation: 3CO2

OG 1.068 to FG 1.004

Fermentation temp/time
start 22C
Ramp by 2C for 8 days
28C for 6 days drop to 17C while i was at work
then bottled 2 weeks later when i got back.

tasting notes - soft bready malts, moderate hop bitterness, prominent fruity esters of banana n pear, spicey peppery phenols.

If you are from western australia you may have heard of the backyard to bottle comp run by gage roads. this was the winner and gage will make a modified version of this next year. as a once off.

There are alot of saisons to try, it is good, most of my purchases lately have been saisons.

Dupont series bon voeux nice, la sierne series i like the normal n the super, stillwater, fantome biere artisanale sur lie was nice, bocq(very nice), 8 wired i didnt like as much, thunderhead road saison was great, Little creatures saison is great, James squire saison(perth) not so good. Exit saison was great, St feuillien was a good one. emelisse was good. Saison rue was a good one made with rye. Mornington, bridgeroad, sixpoint i have had but dont really remember. and Silly Saison isnt a saison. Thats all i remember sure there were others i have tried.

I have the farmhouse ales book and i will sometime in the future will try to make a biere de garde. Havnt been able to try many commercial versions. Jenlain werent good(but will have to try again when i find it) stillwater was good, 3 monts very nice. Bridge road was good

 

[mje1980]

Use 3725 for your beire de garde. It's a Great yeast IMHO

 

[Adr_0]

Well I made one, a little while ago. Just did all malt to 1041, 65°C mash temp and pitched a fairly healthy 3724. Got down to 1020 in a few days and then threw in 400g of clear candi syrup. It didn't re-krausen, but then got down to 1010 when I tasted it a few days ago, so I would say it's getting along... will see in a week or two though I guess.

It started at 18, I let it gently creep to 22 over a couple of days and then threw it out into the Gladstone weather... under the house anyway.

Wow, what a yeast. I did a 60, 30, 15 hop with Czech saaz and Styrian Goldings. I also added 0.75g/L of fresh orange peel (half of what another recipe suggested). Taste is amazing but obviously hard to tell as it will get dry and sharp at FG. Planning to bottle in some DuPont bottles, 750mL Belgian bottles (corked or tirage cap - haven't decided yet) and do a few Xmas gifts... all to myself of course. And a few to some old brewing mates....

3724 I have heard some bad things about (stalling) but so far I can vouch for adding sugar after a couple of days of high krausen as it has 81% attenuated after 7-8 days.

 

[drtomc]

Saison Dupont is one of my favourite beers. As others have said, it's all about the yeast. It is my most brewed style, and I use pilsner malt with a slice of wheat malt, mainly for head retention, and some sugar/candi to get the alcohol and dryness. I have used 3724. The Belle Saison wasn't available when I was last brewing (I'm just back to it after a couple of years off), so I'll certainly be trying that soon.

Saison is a fairly broad style. Of the commercial ones, I reckon the Bridge Road one is most similar to the Dupont.

As others have pointed out, you want a really fermentable wort, so mash long and low, and don't be afraid to use some sugar. I tend to brew a pale one, then on the yeast cake pitch a second batch to which I add some dark candi sugar, which gives a sweeter more complex finish, which is different but also good. My mates are fairly evenly split on which they prefer.

My 2c,
T.