Improving on my first saison

[shacked]

Now you have made me go and have a Saison, this one with 3031-PC Saison-Brett

I'm sorry / you're welcome!!

 

[CmdrRyekr]

Now you have made me go and have a Saison, this one with 3031-PC Saison-Brett

How did you find that blend? I have a smack pack of it that needs to get into a starter real soon, not sure when I'll be able to actually brew with it.

 

[Batz]

How did you find that blend? I have a smack pack of it that needs to get into a starter real soon, not sure when I'll be able to actually brew with it.

It evolves over time, it's drinking very nicely but I'm not sure if I'll do another soon. Be careful the Brett eats up everything, alcohol content is way up there.

 

[Charst]

Agree, the yeast is what Saisons are all about, I like w3711 and w 3726. I don't think the Rye would work for me.
My hop of choice for my Saisions are Hallertau Mittelfruh.
Let me know if you would like to see my grain bill, happy to help.


Batz

I brewed the rye saison in BYO's American saison article based on McKenzie's Saison Vautour, 20 something percent rye and it placed at VICbrew a few years ago. Obviously it depends on your taste preferences though.

I've since gone back to just using Wey Bo pils and 10% wheat.

To add the citrus notes you could also consider small amounts of a citrus rind you like. Indian coriander also has a lovely citrus note.
I cracked into a bottle of LaSirene saison last night and I'm now thinking they have a little dried Curacao orange in theirs.

 

[Phoney]

Hmm not a lot of love for rye in saisons here. Why not? It works well. Though I usually only add up to 10%, I have brewed the fabled How Rye Am I (LINK) and it's a great beer.

I also like putting in up to an ounce of tropical fruit hop like Amarillo late in the boil (or cube hopping if i'm cubing). Pairs wonderfully with the peppery spiciness of saison yeasts.

 

[manticle]

Nothing wrong with it per se - just if you're trying to make a simple saison, start as simple as possible. Build in extra elements as desired (such as rye, fruity hops, etc) in later versions.

 

[shacked]

Ok I'm about to have a crack at version 2. OG 1.055

80% castle pils
19% wheat
~1% acid

Main rest at 64 with a mash out at 76.

Styrians at 60, 10 and cube for 25 - 30 IBU. Belle saison at ambient.

 

[paulyman]

~1% acid

However the beer turns out, it should be a good trip.

 

[shacked]

However the beer turns out, it should be a good trip.

Enough to make one well and truly acidulated.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Ok I'm about to have a crack at version 2. OG 1.055

80% castle pils
19% wheat
~1% acid

Main rest at 64 with a mash out at 76.

Styrians at 60, 10 and cube for 25 - 30 IBU. Belle saison at ambient.

Sounds perfect. Or at least aiming for it. Its the fault of most home brewers with options to add too many options trying to get some special thing. This can be OK with things like IPA. For Saison to be good I feel its more about not messing with it. Less is better. That's a hard sell to excited new brewers.
I'd think a Can and Kilo simple brew with a good Saison yeast would be a good.

 

[shacked]

Sounds perfect. Or at least aiming for it. Its the fault of most home brewers with options to add too many options trying to get some special thing. This can be OK with things like IPA. For Saison to be good I feel its more about not messing with it. Less is better. That's a hard sell to excited new brewers.
I'd think a Can and Kilo simple brew with a good Saison yeast would be a good.

Thanks mate. I've been trying to make my brews more simple and focus on good process and ingredients. Most of my brews now are a base malt or two, a specialty malt or two and a hop or three!

The rye kick was really driven by a mate of mine trying to get through a bag of rye he 'inherited'.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Its the Craft to make good of what you have. Saison was mastered on this principle with minimal ingredients. That's the gist I get of it anyhow.
So it turns out Low Carb beer typically.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Could be Belle Saison - I've brewed with it twice and it produces wonderful Belgian Pales, but not the dry quaffability of a saison.

I used it in Tassie at 20 degrees in my hws cupboard, and at Qld summer ambient the second time. Both produced good beers, though I prefer the hotter brewed beer considerably.

But, it was more Belgian Pale to Amber, not dry and farmy.

Infusion step mash (52 degrees, 63 degrees and a sparge) did wonders for lacing and head retention though.

 

[indica86]

but not the dry quaffability of a saison.

Whenever I have used Belle it has been very dry, often finishing below 1005...

 

[earle]

My first few saisons were with Belle Saison and while they were ok I wasn't 100% happy. I had been using a medium mash profile so switched to a dry mash and Wyeast French Saison yeast at 25C. Very happy with the results, though as I made 2 changes at once I can't be entirely sure which made the biggest improvement. Made one with a simple malt bill which I'm extremely happy with, then used some of the trub for a smoked rye saison. Kegged only yesterday but the sample I had was very promising. As above though I would recommend keeping your saison plain while you perfect it, then branch out if you want.

 

[shacked]

My second attempt is carbed up now and is drinking great. It has a little bit of tartness and the Motueka flavor is great (got the hop schedule from Tony's recipe - no chill adjusted).

I doughed in at 50C and ramped it to 64C for 60m and then mashed out at 77C for 10m. It finished at 1.005 but as LRG said, the belle saison didn't result in the bone dry beer that I was after. I really liked that quality in the two La Sierene (wild and super) examples I had a few weeks ago.

I think for the next batch, I'll switch out the yeast to a liquid version. At 25IBU I think it could have a bit more bitterness, so I might up the 60m addition to get me about 33IBU-ish total.

I didn't do any salt additions (I used some acidulated in the mash). What sort of water profile would a Saison suit?

 

[shacked]

Also, I had about 3L of a dry hopped all Nelson Sauvin Kolsch (100% vienna) left in another keg and I added about 3L of the saison on top of that. That beer is a cracker!