Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[TidalPete]

Yeah Pete i see where you are coming from but I was thinking perhaps smaller volume through coil would get heated quicker. the urn is a tall and thin and yes I think its a 7mm ID but will measure and take a pic. So what is the average ID of coils.

Cheers Brad

Brad,g
The copper tubing most of us use is a smidgen under 10mm ID. I'm sure both you & Gregs have taken into account that copper has a higher thermal conductivity than ss?
Not stirring the pot (Pun intended ), just pointing this out.

TP

 

[Screwtop]

Screwy --- FYI my liquor to grain ratio is always 3.25:1 which suits MY system but may not be best for others.

Be interesting to see what liquor to grist ratios others are using Pete, and how it relates to slow catch up rate of the grainbed temp.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[sav]

Be interesting to see what liquor to grist ratios others are using Pete, and how it relates to slow catch up rate of the grainbed temp.

Cheers,

Screwy

I use 2.80lt pkg I dont have any issues with temp,But I might try 3 too see If I can get a few more points.

sav

 

[technocat]

Brad the coil in my system is 11.5 mm ID thin walled stainless 13mm OD, the coil length is 11 metres, pot size 20 litres, heating is a commercial coffee machine element at 2400w. After that for my system it's all about flow.
View attachment 34890

Gregs as a matter if interest where did you get your coil made and also I was interested in how you did your entry and exit points but but unfortunately they don't show up in the pic.

Cheers
BN

 

[AndrewQLD]

Interested in your findings Andrew as I'm about to upgrade my HE. Bought the gear back in June but still haven't put it together. Do you always mash at 5+L/Kg. I generally use 2.75L/Kg and occasionally 3L/Kg, this may be contributing to the diff in my system.

Cheers,

Screwy

Not always Screwy, the ratios change dependent on the grain bill, however I always do 2 equal drains, mash in is slightly larger than the sparge because I take into account the grain absorption, so long as my two run offs are of equal size I'm happy. My ratios will go from 4l/kg for a 1.050 beer up to 5l/kg for a 1.033 beer.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Screwtop]

Not always Screwy, the ratios change dependent on the grain bill, however I always do 2 equal drains, mash in is slightly larger than the sparge because I take into account the grain absorption, so long as my two run offs are of equal size I'm happy. My ratios will go from 4l/kg for a 1.050 beer up to 5l/kg for a 1.033 beer.

Cheers
Andrew

Thanks Andrew, doing a brew this week, will try a higher L:Grist ratio, maybe 4L/Kg. Be interesting to observe differences in grainbed temp increase using my kit.

Screwy

 

[gregs]

Brad my coil is form an old magic box or ice bucket cooling system; Im not sure what their called.



The fittings in and out are bulkhead style compression fittings at45 degree, circulation is from bottom to top. I can post you some pics later tonight if that will help.

 

[gregs]

Gregs as a matter if interest where did you get your coil made and also I was interested in how you did your entry and exit points but but unfortunately they don't show up in the pic.

Cheers
BN

I hope this pic helps, coil was part of ice bucket cooling system, the type you used to get for partys ect, the fittings are from the original system. The original nylon seals in side the compresion fittings where trashed. I eventual found the correct seals through Beazley Hydraulics. The compression fitting it self slides over the tube, then tightened to seal the coil on the inside of the pot, the other end of the fitting is a straight 1/2 inch BSPF thread with nut, washer and seal on the inside of the pot and nut and washer on the outside of the pot. Hop that makes sense.

 

[gregs]

And one of the out side

 

[yardy]

And one of the out side

View attachment 34921

geez you do nice work mate B)

 

[Polar Beer]

Good thread. I've procrastinated for a while on my HERMS build and this should be the motivation I need to get it done. I have most of the components now. PIDs, pump, bench, false bottom etc.
Just need to:

1: build the HE. Have one of those 8L wine esky cylinder things.
2: build electronics box and install PIDS and elements.
3: upgrade my wiring back to the fuse box. I have a 3.5k element for the HLT. Have been told my 10amp line wont be able to handle it plus fermenting fridges, garage TV etc.
4: Assemble it all

Getting some help with the electrical stuff as I've got no idea.

Can you wise HERMSmen have a look at my diagram and critique? Looks sound enough to me.

BTW - I do remember reading somewhere that people had issues using a SS braid as a manifold with a HERMS or RIMS. They ended up crushing apparently.

Cheers
Polar

View attachment HERMS.pdf

 

[AndrewQLD]

Looks great Polar, it will be a nice and neat system by the looks of things. I use SS braid in my HERMS and have never had a problem. I bought mine from a plumbing supply store as the stuff most hardware stores sell is of a smaller diameter and could be susceptible to collapsing.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Thirsty Boy]

How can you only quote one side of your argument! that is herms vessel size? The other side of the equation is how fast you can heat the herms vessel and that would have a great impact on its ability to work.

Because I was addressing HERMS vessel size not element power - Bonj spotted the bit where I used the phrase "for a given element" which to be honest I simply assumed people would assume... to much assumption I guess. I can't see why you would use in a HERMS system, any element other than the biggest one you practically could. Probably mainly limited by your power supply or perhaps by cost.

So - with any given element - I agree with TP that the smallest possible pot is the best choice. It tallies with all the thought I have given to how a HERMS works and with my experience brewing on a HERMS system with varying vessel sizes. Not the only opinion round.. but my one FWIW

But - I have raised a question that I would be interested in hearing other HERMS brewer's point of view on.

Is there any reason to not run the most powerful element you are able to run? Its not like my RIMS where I need to worry about power density and scorching -- as long as its not so powerful that it blasts your heat/ex vessel way past setpoint before your controller can reign it in..... is not bigger indeed better for this sort of application??


Quote Polar Bear

BTW - I do remember reading somewhere that people had issues using a SS braid as a manifold with a HERMS or RIMS. They ended up crushing apparently.

I used braid for a long time in my HERMS and RIMS - it worked and sometimes it worked pretty well. But in the end I have changed to a false bottom. I do belive that the braid probably crushed or at least pinched at points. I think that the vast majority of action was taking place in the first few inches closest to the outlet. And I could never get the really good flowrate I wanted.. and with lower flowrate, my system lost a lot of stability in its control. On the more frustrating occasions, no matter how low and slow I went, it would just stick and I couldn't re-circulate at all. I haven't really brewed enough with the false bottom to say for sure its better... but so far I seem to get higher flow rates and smoother response from my system with the FB.

I think on balance I'd say go with a proper FB ... although if you just want to get into it and braid is handy, it will indeed work.

TB

 

[chappo1970]

TB - I'm about to rebuild my HERMS system and hard plumb. I first item on the list was up the size of the element from 2200w to 3600w. Also to reduce the HE vessel size from 15.4lts to 11.5lts. What I am hoping to achieve is faster ramp times for my step mashes. I am also toying with the idea of reducing the coil size OD from 12.7 to 9.52 which should reduce my flow by 25%. Now my theory in the madness is with this is I only ever run the system at full flow when I dough in to set the grain bed and then throttle it back to about 1/2. If I have a smaller OD pipe I am effectively doing that with a little room adjustment but I compromise will be I won't have full throttle, which I can't see I really need as I don't fly sparge anyway.

Thanks Andrew, doing a brew this week, will try a higher L:Grist ratio, maybe 4L/Kg. Be interesting to observe differences in grainbed temp increase using my kit.

Screwy

Screwy I am like you with L:Grist ratio's and would be interested in your observations.

Chap Chap

 

[altstart]

TB - I'm about to rebuild my HERMS system and hard plumb. I first item on the list was up the size of the element from 2200w to 3600w. Also to reduce the HE vessel size from 15.4lts to 11.5lts. What I am hoping to achieve is faster ramp times for my step mashes. I am also toying with the idea of reducing the coil size OD from 12.7 to 9.52 which should reduce my flow by 25%. Now my theory in the madness is with this is I only ever run the system at full flow when I dough in to set the grain bed and then throttle it back to about 1/2. If I have a smaller OD pipe I am effectively doing that with a little room adjustment but I compromise will be I won't have full throttle, which I can't see I really need as I don't fly sparge anyway.





Screwy I am like you with L:Grist ratio's and would be interested in your observations.

Chap Chap

Hey Chappo where did yiu get your 3600 watt element from?.
Cheers Altstart

 

[chappo1970]

Hey Chappo where did yiu get your 3600 watt element from?.
Cheers Altstart

Alty,

Stokes

http://www.stokesap.com.au/Content/templat...8&zoneid=12

Great guys and very helpful.

BTW when are we having that brew day together old friend? I have a cracking ESB which I would love you to try.

Chap Chap

 

[A3k]

Hi guys,
what kind of PID controllers does everyone use?
I've got a on/off controller i made using a microcontroller which i could easily enough reprogram to have PID, but i wouldn't mind something a bit more robust.

Cheers,
Al

 

[Polar Beer]

Hi guys,
what kind of PID controllers does everyone use?
I've got a on/off controller i made using a microcontroller which i could easily enough reprogram to have PID, but i wouldn't mind something a bit more robust.

Cheers,
Al

I've got the auberins ones. A ramp/soak one for the HE outlet and a just a controller type one for the HLT. I'm not running yet so can't personally vouch for them, however they seem popular on here. Bulp runs a HERMS and recommended them.

 

[A3k]

I've got the auberins ones.

Awesome thanks, will look into those

 

[yardy]

Can you wise HERMSmen have a look at my diagram and critique? Looks sound enough to me.

BTW - I do remember reading somewhere that people had issues using a SS braid as a manifold with a HERMS or RIMS. They ended up crushing apparently.

Cheers
Polar

I wouldn't consider myself a wise hermsman but I'd move the gas bottle to under the controller and run the gas line along the base of the frame, re: ss braid, longterm i would build a FB, if your system involves a keg shaped vessel then the cut-out can be used.





cheers

Dave