Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[Crusty]

Tun's

Gold............ :lol:

 

[Fat Bastard]

I have recently obtained a March pump that I have been using for whirlpooling, with some success. Last few brews I've been using the Little Brown to run the Heat Exchanger, but I'm not massively happy with the wort clarity into the kettle. I'm thinking of using the March in place of the Brownie on the HX. I suspect this will clear the wort much better due to the increased flow, but is there anything I need to be aware of running a much higher flow through the HX? I've got a valve on the outlet to throttle it back if needed. Can someone already running a March fill me in on a baseline setting to begin with?

Cheers,

FB

 

[razz]

It's one of those suck it and see things FB, I slowly open the valve until wort starts to flow, but only just. It's usually not much more than a trickle and as the wort clears it will flow a bit more.

 

[Fat Bastard]

Thanks Razz! With the March, do you notice the grain bed lifting at all when you change the flow from Recirculate to kettle? With the brown, I've noticed that I get some crud from the grist into the kettle. It's only a tiny amount, but it wasn't coming through when recirculating. I suspect the Brown pump doesn't have enough guts to compact the bed enough into something that will hold shape when suction is removed.

Cheers,

FB.

 

[Beerbuoy]

^ I had some crazy floating grain bed going today

I've just finished upgrading my 3 tier on milk crates no chill rig to a 2 tier herms with whirlpool chiller. Did the first brew today and the grain bed started floating to the top as I raised the temp to 78 for mashout. By the time I started sparging I had to beat it back down with a stick. I was concerned about a lack of efficiency as most of the bed seemed to be floating rather then the sparge water rinsing down through it. In the end I hit the numbers bang on and everything turned out fine.
Any ideas on what caused my grain bed to float? Is this normal with herms? Hard to say but I'd estimate half the bed was floating during the sparge. Grain bill was 95% Bairds GP and 5% Simpsons dark crystal mashed at 65, mashout 78 and sparge water at 80.
I mucked around with the sparge water flow and the grain bed just moved up and down with the level.

 

[razz]

Thanks Razz! With the March, do you notice the grain bed lifting at all when you change the flow from Recirculate to kettle? With the brown, I've noticed that I get some crud from the grist into the kettle. It's only a tiny amount, but it wasn't coming through when recirculating. I suspect the Brown pump doesn't have enough guts to compact the bed enough into something that will hold shape when suction is removed.

Cheers,

FB.

I do get some lifting when I finish the mashout, I usually let the mash sit for 5-10 mins and that's when some lifting occurs. I also find that with the pump outlet set at the start of recirc, as I change temps (moving upwards) that the mash will soften and that's where the flow starts to increase. (pushing a paddle down through the grain bed can cause lifting at this stage also)
As far as changing from recirc to kettle the draf that you're experiencing will most likely come from opening the pump outlet more and allowing more flow through the false bottom.

 

[Mzungu]

G'day guys and gals, I am in the designing phase of building a herms setup and need opinions whether or not this design is feasible. Using one vessel as HEX, Sparge water and for chilling simply by filling with ice water. I have added a dodgy picture as reference:

Red is mash flow
Blue is sparge flow
Green is chill flow

Essentially this is how it will run with 2 pumps and 4 3 way ball valves:


===========
MASHING
===========
Pump 1: ON
Pump 2: OFF

3way Valve 1: A->C
3way Valave 3: B->A
3way Valave 4: c->A

----Transfer mash to boil-----
Pump 1: ON
Pump 2: OFF

3way Valve 1: A->B

==========
SPARGING
==========
Pump 1: OFF
Pump 2: ON

3way Valve 2: B->C
3way Valve 3: C->A

----Transfer sparge to boil-----
Pump 1: ON
Pump 2: OFF

3way Valve 1: A->B

==========
CHILLING
==========
Pump 1: OFF
Pump 2: ON

3way Valve 2: A->C
3way Valve 3: C->B
3way Valve 4: A->B

I have a few questions though:

With HEX coil,
can you have to much?
I think it would only be limited by the pumping power?
which is better transferring heat, copper or stainless?

Maybe I am going a bit to far the chiller feature?
would it be possible with the right amount of 'coiling' to cool down on one pass of say 45L of ice water?

If I am being silly with the chilling part, I can always no chill.

 

[Yob]

I asked the same thing about the ice, did a run through with water and it doesn't work, the ice will melt well before you have run it off.. Unless you have access to an ice machine it's a pretty expensive way to go.. I havnt, as yet, bought a plate chiller and still NC

 

[Mzungu]

Fair enough, will scrap the chilling idea and no chill

 

[drifting79]

after catching up with Nev for some of the best beer i have ever tried i left with a bag of goodies

i knocked this system up and have done a few runs on it so far

its an all electric system which i have incorporated my distilling boiler into

basically everything was purchased on fleabay except for the parts which Nev at Gryphon brewing supplied

I have managed to get good ramp times and since its inception i have been doing 4 temp rests with ease

I made a video on my first batch to share on you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8iJ3fDwe-M

I would like to thank QLD Kev and Nev for support during the build i will be using a pid in future

and all hoses will be upgraded among other fittings etc to get it a little more user friendly as i iron out the bumps.

 

[Beerisyummy]

after catching up with Nev for some of the best beer i have ever tried i left with a bag of goodies

i knocked this system up and have done a few runs on it so far

Thanks for the vid! Pictures speak a thousand words, but a video shows so much more.

 

[V-Dawg]

ah yes corrosion. Completely slipped my mind. Found some basic science calculators and yeah it looks like 30g of salt per litre gives up to a degree before boiling. Too much effort to be useful.

Had a thought, and a quick search but cant anything. Theres been talk of using frozen salt water to reCh colder temps for cooling well the same principle works for heating. Saturated salt water has a higher boiling temp than water so if we used that in our herms we could theoreticaly get higher ramp times. Thoughts?

your herms would want to be 316 ss, and corrosion on any element might be a little harsh too

I have been wondering how much of a problem the actual heat exchange would be. I looked at some simple heat exchange models and they suggest you can easily reach surrounding temps in a few seconds which would be the time in the exchanger at pump rates at about 5 L per minute. So higher temps would only cause denaturing of enzymes unless my model is wrong?!

Does anyone have empirical figures for heating rate depending on diameter, flow rate and spiral length? My intention of looking at models was minimizing the copper tube length/ diameter for my brown pump set up as much as possible.

Cheers
V

 

[jeddog]

I have searched the net for this answer and now cant be bothered to read the 45 pages for such a simple questions that may be answered in these pages.

The MLT is in a 55lt keggle and HEX is in a 55lt HLT. Ramping temps is not problem with 2x 2200 watt elements being used.
I have my temp control on the outlet to my HEX

When do I start timing my rest?
Should I have to have a temp monitor on the outlet from my MTL to know when the mash has reached required temp and once the MTL outlet has temp has been reached do I then start timing each rest?
or
Should I start rest time once my hex outlet reaches required temp?
and
Can I get away from have a temp monitor on my MTL outlet?


Sorry if this have been brought up before.

jeddog

Edit.. Spelling


.

 

[dent]

When do I start timing my rest?

So long as your pump flow is sufficient, the temperature difference between your mash liquor and HX outlet will be within a degree or two. So it is perfectly fine to use the outlet temperature as the basis of your rest timing.

My system starts the rest counter if the outlet is within 1.5 degrees of the setpoint.

 

[jeddog]

Thanks dent

ill give that ago.

 

[WarmBeer]

First brew on the new HERMS-improved-WarmBeer-beer-making system.

My ghetto HERMS chamber, aka $12 kettle, ramped temperature at a little more than 1 degree per minute, controlled by the STC-1000.

In the photo above, you can see I'm re-using the HERMS loop inline to monitor the temperature of the wort going back to the whirlpool return of my immersion chiller. Took about 25 minutes to get the wort from boil down to 16 degrees, ready for pitching.

Will add a bleed valve off the output of the March pump before next brew, as priming the pump was probably the most painful part of the day. Once primed, the March pump is great.

Need to work out a nice, adjustable, wort return that can sit inside my Techni-Ice mash tun, as my "improv" manifold constructed of PVC conduit gets a little wobbly above 55 degrees C.

 

[nathan_madness]

I am currently planning a 3v HERMS. The system is based on a single pump and gravity feeding the MLT from the HLT.

I have 1x70L CB pot and 2x100L CB pots. I will use one of the 100L pots for the BK, but which one should I use for the MLT?

 

[mxd]

I am currently planning a 3v HERMS. The system is based on a single pump and gravity feeding the MLT from the HLT.

I have 1x70L CB pot and 2x100L CB pots. I will use one of the 100L pots for the BK, but which one should I use for the MLT?

I'll go 70 for the HLT, if need be (you can heat the sparge water in time) you can heat your strike water in the MLT

 

[mxd]

First brew on the new HERMS-improved-WarmBeer-beer-making system.

My ghetto HERMS chamber, aka $12 kettle, ramped temperature at a little more than 1 degree per minute, controlled by the STC-1000.

In the photo above, you can see I'm re-using the HERMS loop inline to monitor the temperature of the wort going back to the whirlpool return of my immersion chiller. Took about 25 minutes to get the wort from boil down to 16 degrees, ready for pitching.

Will add a bleed valve off the output of the March pump before next brew, as priming the pump was probably the most painful part of the day. Once primed, the March pump is great.

Need to work out a nice, adjustable, wort return that can sit inside my Techni-Ice mash tun, as my "improv" manifold constructed of PVC conduit gets a little wobbly above 55 degrees C.

looks good, a couple of issues I notice.

What's with the girly gloves ?

you appear to be brewing but not a pint to be seen ?

 

[WarmBeer]

looks good, a couple of issues I notice.

What's with the girly gloves ?
> They're my daughter's gloves. Yes, she has big hands, just like her old man.

you appear to be brewing but not a pint to be seen ?
> I had to put down the stein to be able to use the camera phone. D'uh!