Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[mikec]

Fly, pretty even flow.

 

[Fat Bastard]

I have had between 73% (9.5kg) and 93% (4.5kg) with my HERMS, which is slightly better than I got with BIAB. Mind you, I don't measure my losses to trub, which can vary because I just chuck my hops in. I even crush my grain at 1.6mm. Sorting out my water chemistry via the ez water spreadsheet gave me a measurable increase in efficiency, as did sorting my fly sparging technique.

 

[mikec]

Actually I just emptied the cube into the fermenter, I'd underestimated the amount of extra volume in the cube. My calculated eff was based on 20L, but I actually had 22L.
So eff into fermenter is actually 73% not 67%.
I've still got a ways to go though I think.

My grain was crushed at 1.2mm this time around. It was mostly wheat so not much in the way of husks, but I threw in some gulls.

I haven't as yet started to play with water profiles - perhaps that is the next thing to look at to improve things.

The other thing just occurring to me is that the wort return in the mash tun sits fixed about an inch above the grain bed, but as the grain bed compacts, this gap gets wider. So while I have an even flow with fly sparging, and the water level remains about the height of the wort return, the top of the liquid is probably at least 2 inches higher than the top of the grain bed.
I know general recommendation is for the liquid to be about an inch above the grain - so what effect will extra liquid have?

 

[drifting79]

Hey fellas I have been reading up on the herms system thread and have a build in progress, I have also spoken to Nev and will be getting a stainless herms coil in a few days one question i do have relating to my system is this ..

I have a rectangular coleman cooler 50ltr and i see that most people are using a round vessel i am a little concerned about channeling during mashing

at the moment I just a have a 12" bazooka (stainless mesh type sock) in the tun with a single 1" poly pipe length that slides over the top of the bazooka with slots cut into it that extends the length of the esky/tun.

I intend to make a more complex manifold in the future maybe out of copper but i am happy with the poly for now .

is anyone else using a rectangular tun for herms ?

Is there any issues with channeling?

and is the overall surface area of this size esky to demanding or inefficient for the herms system?

should i be looking for another keggle or one of those round style coolers that i can fit a round style mesh false bottom into?

great thread by the way it answers a lot of my Qs

 

[Fat Bastard]

Actually I just emptied the cube into the fermenter, I'd underestimated the amount of extra volume in the cube. My calculated eff was based on 20L, but I actually had 22L.
So eff into fermenter is actually 73% not 67%.
I've still got a ways to go though I think.

My grain was crushed at 1.2mm this time around. It was mostly wheat so not much in the way of husks, but I threw in some gulls.

I haven't as yet started to play with water profiles - perhaps that is the next thing to look at to improve things.

The other thing just occurring to me is that the wort return in the mash tun sits fixed about an inch above the grain bed, but as the grain bed compacts, this gap gets wider. So while I have an even flow with fly sparging, and the water level remains about the height of the wort return, the top of the liquid is probably at least 2 inches higher than the top of the grain bed.
I know general recommendation is for the liquid to be about an inch above the grain - so what effect will extra liquid have?

What's your wort return like? Can you adjust the height of it? When I was mucking about with recirculating BIAB, I used a shepards crook shaped thing made from1/2" copper pipe that plugged into some silicone tube attached to the brown pump so you could slide the wort return up and down in the silicone tube to adjust the height. Once it's set you just muck around with the flow rates to keep the level where you think it needs to be. I'm currently using a Beerbelly wort return dish and the principle is exactly the same. When I think about it, my wort is probably at least 2" over the grain bed, depending on the bill and the limited capacity of my HLT. Not sure it makes much difference to efficiency.

 

[brettprevans]

Had a thought, and a quick search but cant anything. Theres been talk of using frozen salt water to reCh colder temps for cooling well the same principle works for heating. Saturated salt water has a higher boiling temp than water so if we used that in our herms we could theoreticaly get higher ramp times. Thoughts?

 

[MastersBrewery]

Had a thought, and a quick search but cant anything. Theres been talk of using frozen salt water to reCh colder temps for cooling well the same principle works for heating. Saturated salt water has a higher boiling temp than water so if we used that in our herms we could theoreticaly get higher ramp times. Thoughts?

your herms would want to be 316 ss, and corrosion on any element might be a little harsh too

 

[treefiddy]

You could also boil under pressure to increase the boiling point. Less corrosion issues, more safety issues.

 

[mikec]

You would have to have a ridiculous amount of salt, for very little gain.
I remember reading somewhere that salt water with a gravity of 1.020 (similar to sea water) increases the temp by half a degree, or something along those lines.

 

[mikec]

What's your wort return like? Can you adjust the height of it? When I was mucking about with recirculating BIAB, I used a shepards crook shaped thing made from1/2" copper pipe that plugged into some silicone tube attached to the brown pump so you could slide the wort return up and down in the silicone tube to adjust the height. Once it's set you just muck around with the flow rates to keep the level where you think it needs to be. I'm currently using a Beerbelly wort return dish and the principle is exactly the same. When I think about it, my wort is probably at least 2" over the grain bed, depending on the bill and the limited capacity of my HLT. Not sure it makes much difference to efficiency.

Missed this earlier.
It's a ring of silicone hose that is essentially suspended above the wort. Suspended on one side by hose full of wort, the other side by string.
I can adjust the height to some degree by using different length "suspending" hose, but it's kind of a set at the start of the mash, and then leave, type deal.

I've considered the beerbelly return, just not #1 priority if I don't need it.

 

[brettprevans]

your herms would want to be 316 ss, and corrosion on any element might be a little harsh too

ah yes corrosion. Completely slipped my mind. Found some basic science calculators and yeah it looks like 30g of salt per litre gives up to a degree before boiling. Too much effort to be useful.

 

[Camo6]

Hi all, still building my herms rig and am now working on my wort return. Have come up with an arrangement that I think will work but wondering if I have over engineered it.
I plan on using a loop of perforated silicone hose contained in part of an old steamer. The steamer section will have some stainless all thread connecting it to the wort return inlet allowing me to set the height depending on grain bed depth. The steamer covers a fair portion of the MT (keggle) diameter and will make stirring difficult once in place after mash in.



Can anyone see any problems with this arrangement or am I over complicating things? Will the enclosed sides still allow ample coverage of the grain bed or should I drill a few more holes? Appreciate any advice.

Cheers, Cam.

Edit: didn't mean to include brewstand pic but can't seem to delete it?

 

[mikec]

The hose part of your wort return is similar to mine, I just don't have the the strainer.
I cut some large holes around the inside of the hose/ring, and suspend the whole ring above the mash.
Then you still have access to the mash for stirring etc.

 

[Camo6]

Thanks mikec, how do you suspend the hose or do you allow it to sit on the mash. Have always BIABed so not used to the differences in grain/liquor ratios or sparging. Cheers

 

[mikec]

Will take a pic tomorrow, I just happen to be brewing.

 

[Screwtop]

All thats needed so long as you recirc slowly to avoid grainbed compaction. Silicone hose with fishing net float at the end.

Screwy

\

 

[QldKev]

Do you catch many fish in the mash tun?

 

[razz]

I concur with Screwy, the best so far has been a piece of silicone.

 

[Camo6]

But I see no stainless in either setups. Where's the bling?!

 

[Screwtop]

Do you catch many fish in the mash tun?

Tun's