Beerfest 2007

[Fish]

To All Beerfest entrants,

Prizes and judging sheets will be sent by the end of the week (some have already been sent I believe).

The date of end of March to return scoresheets etc, was to allow Melbourne Brewers volunteers plenty of time to allocate and obtain prizes, communicate with the 21 sponsors and prepare & distribute letters etc quite a large task particularly given the number of entries from independent brewers, who have to be written to individually.

We are very happy with the way the competition went - we managed to get through a record number of entries (229) without too many dramas. A very busy few days! Melbourne Based Club brewers submitted 136 entries (60%), 68 of the entries (29%) came from independent brewers and 25 entries (11%) came from interstate Brewing Clubs.

Thanks to all who entered and especially those who participated on the weekend by convening, judging, etc.

In addition we would like to again thank our sponsors who provided such generous support and allowed us to offer some great prizes. Grand Ridge provided magnificent facilities and were very accommodating as usual. They also continue to offer the huge $500 cash prize for Champion Beer. Robin Brown, The Champion Brewer, will be discussing his prize with the Transport Bar and we hope to have details shortly re. a launch date for his commercially brewed recipe.

There has been some post event-discussion within Melbourne Brewers about the growth in entry numbers (mainly independent' brewers) experienced over recent years and the resources required to manage the competition. We are keen to see Beefest continue and grow. However, it has almost reached a point where, unless we are able to get more resources to help at Mirboo North, we may have to consider restricting entries in some way.

We would be very interested in any feedback people may have:.

 Do members of inter-state brewing clubs and independent brewers see Beerfest as a worthwhile competition and are keen to see it continue in its present format?

Judges while we had a few new judges from Melbourne Brewers, the bulk of the judging is being done by some regulars again, members of Melbourne based Brewing Clubs . Our concern being these judges get burnt-out (some are judging 3 flights over the weekend with some flights taking 6 hours), especially as Beerfest continues to grow.

Are those that are entering beers (logistics allowing) prepared in future to get involved in event organisation, judging, convening etc if asked?

Independents The logistics of communicating with Independents, distributing prizes, etc as opposed to dealing with brewing clubs, makes the (post-event) administrative side of Beerfest a huge task.

Are independents prepared to join and actively participate in brewing clubs or are there issues that are stopping them from doing so, such as location, time, desire for independence etc?

Cheers and thanks again.

Melbourne Brewers
Committee

 

[Linz]

Hows about relaxing the definition of a brew club???

Im still confused....I was in contact with an organizer and was told that MALE didnt 'qualify' as a club, so we paid 'independant' prices, but our entries were listed as club entries in the results??

So whats the go???

 

[Fish]

Hi Linz,

I'll try to answer your questions as follows:

Hows about relaxing the definition of a brew club???.................I believe we are looking to work with anyone who is willing to actively participate in the organisation / running of Beerfest. If your 'web-based' club is happy to do so then we would certainly consider you as a club. If on the other hand the club is being used to gain cheaper entries then this does not help us.

but our entries were listed as club entries in the results??..........if you put MALE on the entry form then that is what would have been put on the results sheet / any correspondence.

So whats the go???...............Apologies if you feel in any way wronged here.

Cheers Fish

p.s. - Hopefully by now most of you have received your score-sheets, prizes, etc... Can I just remind you all we are still looking for as much feed-back as possible on the event, the issues of judges, independents, etc...

 

[Stuster]

Just received my scoresheets today along with the nice glass tankard! I also now have Beersmith.

The comp seemed very well run to me and I'm definitely planning on entering again next year. Like Linz, I was a bit confused by the individual/club thing. That seems clear and fair now. I am very happy to get Beersmith, but I was wondering how pleased somebody who already has it would be to get it as their prize. :unsure:

One small and (for me) good snafu was that my Belgian Pale Ale turned out to have a score of 99.5 rather than the 61 on the website results. My entry number was 61 though which might explain it.

 

[fixa]

Independents The logistics of communicating with Independents, distributing prizes, etc as opposed to dealing with brewing clubs, makes the (post-event) administrative side of Beerfest a huge task.

Are independents prepared to join and actively participate in brewing clubs or are there issues that are stopping them from doing so, such as location, time, desire for independence etc?

Fish;
My reason is purely location. i doubt there is another AG brewer within 500km's of me. If the entry's were closed off to independants, that would leave me nowhere to go (except other comps). I personally don't see why independants cause so much of a problem. Is it because you need to send out more letters/prizes? i thought the increase in cost for this would be covered by the increased premium paid by independant brewers. Believe me, if i could be in a club, i would!!!!
Having said that;
Thanks to all who ran the event, and look forward to next year.

 

[brendanos]

So when do we start discussing humorous/conflicting scorecards?

 

[brendanos]

Ok I'd better start us off!


"low hop aroma" vs "significant hop aroma" - in the same beer.

"no american hops detected" (same beer as previous) - amarillo detected instantly by everyone else that has tried it.

"dominated by american citrus hops", "prominant cascade hop aroma", "amarillo hops", "U.S. varieties", "U.S. hop character", "american citrus hop flavour", "very pronounced american hop bouquet", "big cascade" - all in a beer hopped only with Saaz and Sauvin.

(I particularly liked this one)
"use more crystal, and less roast/choc grain" - in a beer with over 13% crystal and less than 1% roast.




I hate to nit-pick - it's a great to have events like these, and there was quite a few judges that gave really great feedback, but some of them were really just.... bewildering. I guess to be productive, it would be nice to have more reputable/consistant judges.

 

[goatherder]

I was very pleased with the quality of the feedback. There were one or two sheets with almost no comments but the others were consistent and helpful. I certainly got the feedback I was looking for from my entries.

 

[fixa]

I'm a bit dissapointed with my feedback. out of the three sheets, 2 had no comments at all..... the third had something along the lines of "good example of this style"..?????? dunno what i was looking for in the judging sheets, but felt very underwhelmed by the comments.
maybe becasue i entered the california common and there isn't a lot of it available commercially?

 

[Malnourished]

I hate to nit-pick...

I can see where you're coming from, but I hardly think it's fair to criticise what people taste in beer. Taste is entirely subjective; they taste what they taste and they smell what they smell. Obviously the judging environment isn't the absolute optimum way to evaluate an individual beer, but it is done blind so there is none of the power of suggestion you get when you tell your mates your beer is an APA, for instance.

And having three judging sheets which all say the exact same thing isn't any more helpful than just having one, so complete consistency shouldn't really be the aim, IMO.

I do agree that specifying hop varieties is a slippery slope for judges. Saying "American hop aroma" makes a lot more sense to me than "Cascade" or "Amarillo," but Nelson Sauvin seems rather "American" to me so I can see where they're coming from.

Anyway, overall my experience was pretty similar to goatherder - a couple had barely any comments, but most others were quite descriptive (depending on the category.) One in particularly was very, very good.

 

[Stuster]

I think Malnourished is right that taste is subjective and so there will be differences in the tasting notes. I had excellent feedback on all three sheets for two beers, but all the sheets for the third beer were rather lacking, with few notes. It seems like there may have been a few inexperienced judges there, which is hardly surprising considering the size of the comp. All experienced judges were inexperienced once after all. Overall, I'm certainly happy with the feedback.

 

[Jye]

I agree with Malnourished that taste is purely subjective but how hard is it to fill out a score sheet correctly????

Giving an over all score for flavour and not marking down the individual points for hop, malt etc with a descriptive word or 2 circled isnt that hard <_< And for someone who is looking for all the feedback they can get to improve their brewing this is useless :angry:

One of the judging sheets for my IPA had 'earthy' for the hop aroma and then 'good example of style' for the overall impression with only one descriptive word circled. I dont think being an inexperienced judge is a valid excuses for a poor score sheet... take a few hours the night before to refresh on the style and write down a list of descriptive terms for the style.

It would be worth while if the organisers pointing out what is a bad and good score sheet so that the judges know what is acceptable.

That being said I did get some good comments on my Stone Porter but the score sheet was still incomplete on 2 out of 3.

To summarise, any comments are great but a incomplete score card is unacceptable.

Edit - The glass looks great and I swapped over my Beersmith registration code so I can get some use out of my prize

 

[bigfridge]

I agree with Malnourished that taste is purely subjective but how hard is it to fill out a score sheet correctly????

Giving an over all score for flavour and not marking down the individual points for hop, malt etc with a descriptive word or 2 circled isnt that hard <_< And for someone who is looking for all the feedback they can get to improve their brewing this is useless :angry:

One of the judging sheets for my IPA had 'earthy' for the hop aroma and then 'good example of style' for the overall impression with only one descriptive word circled. I dont think being an inexperienced judge is a valid excuses for a poor score sheet... take a few hours the night before to refresh on the style and write down a list of descriptive terms for the style.

It would be worth while if the organisers pointing out what is a bad and good score sheet so that the judges know what is acceptable.

That being said I did get some good comments on my Stone Porter but the score sheet was still incomplete on 2 out of 3.

You should take any concerns up directly with the comp organisers.

As a sanctioned BJCP competition they have an obligation to uphold the standard.

 

[Jye]

You should take any concerns up directly with the comp organisers.

As a sanctioned BJCP competition they have an obligation to uphold the standard.

Hopefully Fish will respond and take up some of these issues, if not I will email my rant directly to beerfest and also point them back to this thread.

 

[chris.taylor.98]

As a first time judge at Beerfest, I just want to give you my perspective on the event and how the judging process was handled.

To start off with there are not enough people stepping up to help out with judging period. If there where more judges we could more comprehensively cover all the styles and categories, and the quality of the judging would be better over all.

For those that have not considered judging before because:
- I might not get it right
- I'm not experienced enough
- My sense of smell is not good enough
- The person who's beer I judge might track me down and do something unspeakable to me
- etc etc
All I can say is ... bullshit. Your not going to be any good at it first off ( hence some score sheets with very few/no comments ) but you have to start somewhere. And you will be placed with experienced judges to guide you through the process.

If you know your beer, and you know how to pick good beer, then you have enough experience to try judging ( generally it helps if you know something about brewing as well ).

I did learn a lot during the judging process. In fact I would have to say that I learnt a lot more from the "problem" beers than the great beers ( and yes there where some really fantastic ones there too ).

In terms of subjectivity, all three judges are supposed to concur on the results for a particular beer. In fact you will find that individuals are more sensitive to different types of aromas and flavours ( especially the off ones ). And you do get some variation, but there should be some consencus overall.

Anyway all said and done I was very impressed with the organisation of beerfest ( even if my own results where not so good )

 

[Ross]

In terms of subjectivity, all three judges are supposed to concur on the results for a particular beer. In fact you will find that individuals are more sensitive to different types of aromas and flavours ( especially the off ones ). And you do get some variation, but there should be some consencus overall.

Interesting... I got this feedback the previous year from Beerfest on my Vanilla Mocha porter, Had a few judges sit at my bar & taste it, who ALL commented on the lovely coffee & vanilla.

Judge 1: Vanilla yes, Coffee no. Roast malt & vanilla dominates - no coffee apparent.
Jude2: Can't detect any vanilla. coffee flavour no more than expected in a porter, reasonable robust porter.
Judge3. No vanilla or coffee, some roast is evident, but too much for a porter.

Hardly an overall concencus, & to be honest it put me off entering this year. Maybe the judges had never drank real Brazillian coffee & confused it as there was no roast barley in the recipe at all, but for one to find the vanilla overpowering & the other 2 saying it was undetectable, you gotta wonder...

Cheers Ross

 

[Fish]

Thanks to all for the feedback - we will certainly take this on board.

I must say I'm slightly bewildered by the negativity of some of them. As per a previous post the judging is being left to too few. We are acutely aware of this and very keen to fix it. If some more people put their hands up to judge or steward or whatever I'm sure we would have more time, more fresh judges, etc... to complete each and every judging sheet.

Any thoughts on how we may be able to increase resources for future events would be great.

Cheers again.
Fish

 

[///]

I must say I'm slightly bewildered by the negativity of some of them. As per a previous post the judging is being left to too few. We are acutely aware of this and very keen to fix it. If some more people put their hands up to judge or steward or whatever I'm sure we would have more time, more fresh judges, etc... to complete each and every judging sheet.

Any thoughts on how we may be able to increase resources for future events would be great.

Since the NSW region took seriously the BJCP program and style categories we have never had any issue with finding folks to help.

The scary thing was that at the previous 2 NSW Comp's we had an excess of trained BJCP Judges; a number of BJCP trained judges had to do other duties as their judging skills were in surplus.

This year our NSW BJCP judge numbers will grow 2 fold - I cant understand why there is a problem in Victoria then?!

Scotty

 

[warrenlw63]

Probably the venue Scotty

Mirboo North is a 2 hour drive from Melbourne. Overnight accommodation is almost a pre-requisite.

Warren -

 

[bigfridge]

Since the NSW region took seriously the BJCP program and style categories we have never had any issue with finding folks to help.

The scary thing was that at the previous 2 NSW Comp's we had an excess of trained BJCP Judges; a number of BJCP trained judges had to do other duties as their judging skills were in surplus.

Scotty

So true Scotty.

For the last state championships we had 32 judges plus stewards and other helpers, with 20 of them being BJCP trained.

This allowed us to have experienced judges on each table with the head judge being responsible for the quality and completeness of the score sheets. We also had experience judges organising the stewards and running the cellar to ensure that everything went smoothly.

Warren, accomodation is certainly the key as well. We were 2 hrs from Sydney and an hour from Newcastle so we arranged cheap accomodation and a free awards evening to reward the helpers for their hard work.

David