2016 VIC Xmas in July Swap/Brew- Recipe

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'Sounds like anything involving Nelson has a big thumbs-down from the cogniscente, so might need a re-think...

For those curious about the technicalities, here's a cut/paste from a Beersmith newsletter thinggie I received a couple of months ago:

Parti-Gyle brewing is a method for making more than one batch of beer from a single all grain mash. It offers tremendous flexibility since you can brew two beers of different gravities, and also add different hops and yeast to create distinct beers from one brewing session.

History
Parti-Gyle brewing is not a new method. The method goes back hundreds of years, and many modern sub-styles are examples of light and heavy versions made from a single mash. Examples include the various weights of English and Scotch Ale, various grades of Bock, and even variations of Trappist ales. In the 1700's and 1800's it was very common to create a strong beer from the first runnings of the mash and a lighter common beer from the second runnings of a mash.

The Parti-Gyle Method
The standard method for Parti-Gyle brewing is to make two beers from a single mash. Typically a fairly high gravity beer is made from the “first runnings” of the mash, and the second runnings are boiled separately to make a lighter beer. Often different hop additions, boil additions and yeast are used to create distinct styles from the two runnings depending on the brewer's preference.

Estimating the Gravity of Each Beer
When designing a parti-gyle beer, one is usually concerned with gravity and color of the two beers being created. This is important for determining how much grain is required for each beer and also how much liquid to run through each to achieve a target boil gravity. The rule of thumb for an average mash is that 2/3 of the gravity potential is in the first 1/2 of the runnings. This is due to the fact that most of the high gravity wort comes in the first third of the lauter.
One common parti-gyle split is 1/3 volume for the first runnings and 2/3 volume for the second which results in a first batch of beer that has twice the points that the second batch will have. So for example if the total mash had an estimated original gravity of 1.060, we would expect the first 1/3 to have a gravity of 1.090 and the second to have a gravity of half the points or 1.045.
For a 50-50 split by volume, with half of the wort in each batch we get a roughly 58% of the gravity points in the first batch. So a 1.060 overall batch OG would translate to a 1.070 first runnings and 1.050 second runnings, with both of equal size.

Estimating OG for Split Batches
To perform these calculations yourself, start with the OG estimate of the mash runnings using conventional methods. This can be done using the method described here, except you use the mash efficiency and total lauter volume instead of the overall brewhouse efficiency and overall batch volume to get your mash OG estimate.
Once you have the OG estimate for the overall batch, get the number of points by subtracting one and multiplying by 1000, so 1.060 becomes 60 points. Next we use the following to calculate the final number of points in this fraction:
So if we look at a 1.060 total gravity estimate with a 1/3-2/3 volume split which has half the points in each runnings we get 60 points, 0.5 as the points_fraction and 1/3 or 0.333 as the fractional volume:
Number_points_ runnings = (Tot_points * Points_fraction / fractional_volume)
The second runnings of 2/3 is:
Number_points_runnings = (60 * 0.50 / 0.333) = 90 points or a gravity of 1.090

Number_points_runnings2 = (60*0.50 / 0.666) = 45 points or 1.045 gravity

Using the same equation, you can come up with an accurate estimate for the gravity of each of the runnings based on the original gravity of the overall batch.

Color Considerations
It should be no surprise that the color of the two batches in a parti-gyle will be darker for the first runnings and lighter for the second in most cases. Calculating the actual color for a regular beer is described here, and is based on the Malt Color Units (MCUs) which are simply the sum of the pounds of malt times their color for all grains in a batch.
Looking at the examples above - a 50-50 volume split has about 2/3 of the gravity in the first runnings and 1/3 in the second runnings. The malt color units follow, so about 2/3 of the MCUs will be in the first running and 1/3 in the second. So if you calculate the overall Malt Color Units for the total batch (sum of the pounds of malt times color of each malt), you can multiply it by 2/3 or 1/3 for each running and then apply the Morey equation to get the color estimate for each of the runnings. Here the OG_FRACTION refers to the 2/3-1/3 OG split so you would apply 2/3 to the first runnings and 1/3 to the second:

SRM_color = 1.4922 * ((MCU * OG_FRACTION) ** 0.6859)

Since the Morey equation is not linear, you will see a larger color difference for a parti-gyle beer when working with lighter beers. So for a very light beer and a 50-50 volume split, the first runnings will be almost twice as dark as the second runnings. However as the beer gets darker the difference will be smaller - to the point where the second runnings of a Stout beer might have no perceivable difference in color from the first.

After the Mash
Once you have mashed your parti-gyle beer and taken the two runnings, the rest of the brewing process is the same as with any other beer. Obviously the two runnings are boiled separately so you either need two boil pots and heat sources or a sterile way to store one of the runnings for a few hours while you boil the other.
One of the great features of part-gyle brewing is the ability to change the character of the beer in the boil and fermentation. By adding different hop additions, yeast, spices or steeping additional grains prior to the boil (much like an extract brew) you can dramatically change the character of the two beers produced. With a little imagination you really can create two distinctly different beer styles from a single brewing session.
For design purposes it is usually best to treat the two runnings as separate beers at this point, and the usual rules for estimating bitterness, final gravity and fermentation apply. The design possibilities are nearly endless. You could create a strong ale and bitter, a wheat bock and weizen, a brown and pale and many other combinations from a single mash.

Obviously, we can't know our "brewhouse efficiency" numbers etc, since the system is always cobbled-together from multiple systems, but at least we can get in the ballpark & have a bit of fun with it.

I reckon keep it as simple as possible - SMASH Barley Wine & SMASH 2nd Gyle. Pearl & Goldings?
Let's not forget that alcohol (& Yob's thumb) will be involved in the proceedings.... :chug:
 
For your un-calibrated thumb, here it is distilled (watch the Mod's jump all-over this like a big black Rottweiller!):

The rule of thumb for an average mash is that 2/3 of the gravity potential is in the first 1/2 of the runnings. This is due to the fact that most of the high gravity wort comes in the first third of the lauter.

One common parti-gyle split is 1/3 volume for the first runnings and 2/3 volume for the second which results in a first batch of beer that has twice the points that the second batch will have. So for example if the total mash had an estimated original gravity of 1.060, we would expect the first 1/3 to have a gravity of 1.090 and the second to have a gravity of half the points or 1.045.
 
1 person didn't like Nelson, and one wasn't sure if his beer was any good...but yet they are not designing receipes that I see here.. don't see that as a reason not to use it.. the receipe I have designed holds its own.. and don't see why it is a reason not to use it..I'll be out if its a SMASH .. not interested in having a smash as a result of this...as a SMASH Barleywine/gyle is not something I would want to put time into or drink, especially for the sakes of adding a few more grains that will exponentially increase the drinking experience.

http://fortitudebrewing.com.au/beer-type/admiral-ackbar-anti-imperial-red-ale/

FU^&ing Great Beer.. don't knock it unless you have had it!
 
How much volume do we need to be hitting?
24 people getting 22L each is close to 550L per batch. Plus losses/inefficiencies. So target roughly 600L?

If I've understood Martin's figures correctly we should be able to punch out 2 lots of 600L to hit 1.083 & 1.060 respectively, using the Barleywine recipe Grainer posted at 75% efficiency.
Mind you, take out the sugar and it's 70 & 58.
Pretty similar numbers. I'd be happy to go the 50:50 volume as it's going to be the easiest to reconcile volumes into cubes (I think). But it'll be hard to hit Barleywine numbers doing this.
So either we do a 1/3 & 2/3 vol split or go more with an imperial+ale or ESB+mild.
Just mulling over options

Edit: if we did 1/3,2/3 vol, the Barleywine recipe becomes 1.103 & 1.052. I reckon that's more interesting as a result for 2 different beers, but I'm not sure how we go about splitting 400L + 800L? New lists?
 
Fwiw, the Imperial Red will have all the Nelson in the cube, so peoples could just sub in anything else.

I'd suggest for both "gyles" maybe use Citra as FWH and leave it as that. Everything else is cubists' choice into their cube.
 
Prefer to push the higher grav for a barleywine and add malt character....
 
An early centennial/columbus would work on the barkeywine 2 instead of nelson to add ibu but see no reason to be against kiwis..the IRA would best benefit from the Nelson
 
technobabble66 said:
How much volume do we need to be hitting?
24 people getting 22L each is close to 550L per batch. Plus losses/inefficiencies. So target roughly 600L?

If I've understood Martin's figures correctly we should be able to punch out 2 lots of 600L to hit 1.083 & 1.060 respectively, using the Barleywine recipe Grainer posted at 75% efficiency.
Mind you, take out the sugar and it's 70 & 58.
Pretty similar numbers. I'd be happy to go the 50:50 volume as it's going to be the easiest to reconcile volumes into cubes (I think). But it'll be hard to hit Barleywine numbers doing this.
So either we do a 1/3 & 2/3 vol split or go more with an imperial+ale or ESB+mild.
Just mulling over options

Edit: if we did 1/3,2/3 vol, the Barleywine recipe becomes 1.103 & 1.052. I reckon that's more interesting as a result for 2 different beers, but I'm not sure how we go about splitting 400L + 800L? New lists?
Guess 1st on the lists?? And organiser preferene?
 
I'm in with Nelson sauvin and citra (if we can get it!). My only suggestion on the recipe would be to dial down the crystal a tad (the carared). Just a suggestion though.
 
I would change it a bit to have amber/victory malt in there if i was to reduce crystal..it needs to be sweeter crystals... for both...so do i work on a real receipe with these suggestions?

The dark crystal would need pulling back by 50-60% thinking about it with a substitution of the CaraRed .. I'll work on an updated receipe and go from there...
 
Choosing an expensive & characterful hop like Citra for bittering is just going to be a WOFTAM (IMHO).

I suggested the SMASH, as it's dead simple. Sure, we can add some other things to the mix, but trying to hit numbers on an unknown system is just pissing into the wind. There's no base-line to work-from, so the results will be malleable whatever we do (not to say we won't make beer!!).

Grainer, go ahead & plan a recipe, but I suggest keeping it simple & don't expect to hit the numbers, or else your ego will take a serious battering/ribbing from the peanut gallery... :p

Everyone bring extra an cube just in case we do better than expected & we can raffle-off the first-rights to each boil's leftovers. :super:
 
MartinOC said:
Choosing an expensive & characterful hop like Citra for bittering is just going to be a WOFTAM (IMHO).

I suggested the SMASH, as it's dead simple. Sure, we can add some other things to the mix, but trying to hit numbers on an unknown system is just pissing into the wind. There's no base-line to work-from, so the results will be malleable whatever we do (not to say we won't make beer!!).

Grainer, go ahead & plan a recipe, but I suggest keeping it simple & don't expect to hit the numbers, or else your ego will take a serious battering/ribbing from the peanut gallery... :p

Everyone bring extra an cube just in case we do better than expected & we can raffle-off the first-rights to each boil's leftovers. :super:
I would be using Magnum for bittering
 
Base Barleywine Reciepe - Hop it as u like

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 561.44 l
Post Boil Volume: 560.19 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 550.00 l
Bottling Volume: 549.05 l
Estimated OG: 1.108 SG
Estimated Color: 27.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 98.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
225.00 kg Pearl (4.6 EBC) Grain 1 90.8 %
6.60 kg Gladfield Dark Crystal Malt (190.0 EBC) Grain 2 2.7 %
6.60 kg Gladfield Medium Crystal Malt (111.0 EBC Grain 3 2.7 %
2.96 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 4 1.2 %
6.56 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 5 2.6 %
1400.00 g Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 78.4 IBUs
700.00 g Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 20.0 IBUs

The magnum is VERY neutral so this will allow for the cubists to style there Barleywine to suit and allow for some huge variations in late hop additions
Suggestions for Dry Hop : Centennial, Amarillo, Citra. These will also add a small level of IBU and bring it to ~107 which is about target.
If we don't have enough Pearl we can add the rest of the DME from the last swap
Now to wok on the IRA receipe..time to do some calculations .. maybe after Vikings !

Party Gyle would require a secondary mash of an additional 3.5kg Medium Crystal, and 9kg of Carared with cube hopped preferences. Suggest Nelson Savin/Citra or columbus /cascade or centennial/simcoe

fml.. just realise d I am in Borneo and Thailand in July ! please change it to Xmas in late June !
 
So the first runnings need to be enough for the cube list so 24 x 20L = 480 + losses we're looking at more than 800L hot water straight up.
And then do it again for the gyle 480 + losses about 600L hot water. Only rough figures. Anyone know of of a milk vat available anywhere? Genuinely interested myself in one of the older round ones like Bandicoot brewery has if around.
 
I'm with techno here !

give me an esb and Irish , over the barley wine , my 2c

Is idzy attending or is his gear available to use , given the volumes we need.

argh don't you love the pre amble to these events ?

and have we sorted the food yet ...think I gluten free and lactose intolerant

mick
 
whiteferret said:
So the first runnings need to be enough for the cube list so 24 x 20L = 480 + losses we're looking at more than 800L hot water straight up.
And then do it again for the gyle 480 + losses about 600L hot water. Only rough figures. Anyone know of of a milk vat available anywhere? Genuinely interested myself in one of the older round ones like Bandicoot brewery has if around.
I calculated for 550l
 
No one has mentioned food yet. I'm hoping to have a wood fired oven ready so maybe pizzas for Friday night and maybe slow roasted stuff in rolls for lunch whatever Saturday.
 
m sure there are a few smokers out there 2
 
An UDS that hasn't fired a shot for over a year. Hmm must do some more smoked chicken breasts. And bacon!
 
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