Which Commercial Kegs Can You Legally Own?

[real_beer]

About 4 years ago I bought one 18 gallon, two 10 gallon, and two 5 gallon old style XXXX kegs over a period of 12 months from the local recycle tip at Redland Bay in QLD.

I had a discussion with the guy who had the recycling contract from the local council about the legality of ownership and he said that their standing was anything that hits the tipface lost any rights of ownership. If the breweries wanted the kegs back they would have to pay for them, the same applied to shopping trolleys from supermarkets that the council collected from parks and roadsides, if they wanted them back they had to pay a hefty fee. Most of them end up in containers shipped off for recyling in China.

Let me clear this up the (their standing) I'm talking about is what the local council, a government body has as a policy for its recycling facilities. The breweries have apparently argued their point through the court system without success. The people who run these facilities for the council have to follow a set of rules laid down by law on what they can and can't sell, they're still doing it, the recycling tips in Perth are doing it, your local recycling tip is probably doing it.

Does that make me a thief? Not according to local councils I've talked to. Is it unfair to the breweries? Yes. What's the answer? At the pub I worked at we unloaded all the kegs logged the serial numbers and kept all the empties under lock and key until the breweries collected them on the next delivery. When someone hired a keg we would deliver it to the address and set it up with a hefty deposit on the equipment which had to be returned in good condition. We ended up not hiring kegs out after a while because of all the trouble people caused with call outs from playing with the gas & the fact we could work out cheaper prices for them on bulk buys of carton beers.

HOW MANY KEGS DO YOU THINK WE LOST? 00000000000000000000000.

The hotels and pubs should be accountable for every keg that's delivered to their premises and should have to pay the cost of replacement when lost. I've driven past so many places where empty kegs are sitting in areas open to the public it's just not funny. How many kegs do you think they'd lose if they had to reimburse the breweries for everyone they lost? Not many, they'd soon find a way to keep them safe.

Another point to consider:
A ship's in trouble 20 nautical miles out to sea of Sydney, its carrying 20,000 kegs of Australian mega swill from the two major breweries, the crew abandon ship fearing it's sinking. The captain of another ship nearby sends an emergency crew to claim salvage rights and they then safely bring it into Sydney Harbour. Who do you think owns the ship, the beer, and the kegs which clearly have Property of CUB, XXXX, etc stamped all over them? Well according to most people on this site it's obviously not the captain who salvaged the ship.

Before I bought the kegs in my first post I checked whether it was okay (council policy). About 12 months later after building up the keg collection and buying old fittings to use with them from local pubs I phoned the Castlemaine Brewery at Milton about the bungs who said they couldn't help and admitted it was a grey area and an ongoing dispute with councils. He was very understanding and said he had to obviosly follow his companies viewpoint stating that if they see one of their kegs advertised for sale in the papers they try to reclaim them. We also had a discussion about the home brew use of the old kegs and this is when he told me their standpoint on safety concerns. Did he ask for my address and phone number? No. Did he call me a theif? No. He just said it's a grey area where councils and salvage is concerned.

Have I had opportunity to steal a keg from a pub? Hundreds. Have I? No. Would I? No.

Did I buy kegs from a local government authority who claimed them as salvage? You bet.

People can't steal safely stored kegs if there's a tracking system in place that notes which pubs have what keg and makes them accountable. Some newer kegs overseas have identification devices built into the head for easy tracking, a bit like chipping your pouch, which will make things easier for the breweries to keep control.

One last point, I've never bought a keg from anywhere else other than the tip and one salvage yard. No dodgy mate who works at a pub, or a garage sale, flea market etc. I'm not the least bit guilty of how I aquirred these kegs no matter how many people may disagree.

Cheers

 

[white.grant]

I work in local government and understand the rules so would like to give you a tip, :icon_cheers:

Council waste disposal centres receive many interesting items -- i've seen jewellery boxes, safes, ATMS, cars, and yes even kegs dropped off and reclaimed by their rightful owners. Council's will usually contact the police if items are suspicious. A lot of stolen property is reclaimed in this way.

You cannot salvage items from the tip face, Salvage is only really relevant to freight transport and logistics (mining and drilling equipment too if its big enough). If you salvage something you are obliged to give it back to the rightful owner who will compensate you for your efforts. If you do not give it back, it is not salvaged, it is stolen. There was an incident recently when BMW motorbikes (amongst other things) were washed ashore in Spain after a ship ran aground. BMW and their insurers are actively pursuing these assets.


cheers

grant

 

[quantocks]

very good point Grant. I always figured 'finders keepers' though, but I do see the problem here. Years back I found a bicycle on my way home, It could of been stolen for all I knew and I handed it in to the cop shop. A few months later I got a call to come and collect my shiny new bike as no one had claimed it.

could you use this same logic with a keg? what if after a few months CUB doesn't call the police station asking about the kegs where abouts and they call to give it to you? is it then yours to keep?

if not, why can I keep someones bike but not someones keg?

hundreds of people took stuff that was just washed up on the beach, who was to know who owned what? but now the Police are saying if they do not declare they took stuff it is theft.

I would of thought had you of found something in the rubbish that someone has thrown out, you could keep it. I guess a lot of people think the same.

 

[peas_and_corn]

Are councils governments or local authorities? I thought it was the latter.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

some people are missing a vital part of the argument - the word "current"

corny kegs are not the "current" container for the companies who have their name stamped on them - The castlemaine perkins kegs you got from the tip, are not current style kegs - po-mo's trailer load of casks are not current style kegs. The breweries have sold or relinquished ownership of that property.

They DO NOT sell current style kegs and thus they maintain their ownership and there is no confusion... they never sold or gave it to anyone, so no matter where you got it, it belongs to them.

 

[KHB]

very good point Grant. I always figured 'finders keepers' though, but I do see the problem here. Years back I found a bicycle on my way home, It could of been stolen for all I knew and I handed it in to the cop shop. A few months later I got a call to come and collect my shiny new bike as no one had claimed it.

could you use this same logic with a keg? what if after a few months CUB doesn't call the police station asking about the kegs where abouts and they call to give it to you? is it then yours to keep?

if not, why can I keep someones bike but not someones keg?

hundreds of people took stuff that was just washed up on the beach, who was to know who owned what? but now the Police are saying if they do not declare they took stuff it is theft.

I would of thought had you of found something in the rubbish that someone has thrown out, you could keep it. I guess a lot of people think the same.

Sweet score!!!

KHB

 

[Jakechan]

Those kegs must be full of VB

 

[staggalee]

What a crock the whole thread is, some even taking the opportunity to grandstand with posts to rival The Declaration Of Independence.
Can anyone actually point us to or name an incident where someone was prosecuted for the possesion of a beer keg? :lol:
This would be a joke if it wasn`t so funny, it comes up every few months but no one actually knows of anyone being "caught" for such a henious crime.
Strange, isn`t it? :lol:

stagga.

 

[real_beer]

I work in local government and understand the rules so would like to give you a tip, :icon_cheers:

Council waste disposal centres receive many interesting items -- i've seen jewellery boxes, safes, ATMS, cars, and yes even kegs dropped off and reclaimed by their rightful owners. Council's will usually contact the police if items are suspicious. A lot of stolen property is reclaimed in this way.

You cannot salvage items from the tip face, Salvage is only really relevant to freight transport and logistics (mining and drilling equipment too if its big enough). If you salvage something you are obliged to give it back to the rightful owner who will compensate you for your efforts. If you do not give it back, it is not salvaged, it is stolen. There was an incident recently when BMW motorbikes (amongst other things) were washed ashore in Spain after a ship ran aground. BMW and their insurers are actively pursuing these assets.


cheers

grant

The public aren't allowed on the tip face all goods for sale are collected and put in a fenced compound and sold off on certain days. Here's the listing from the councils A-Z pdf guide on page 32:

Recycleworld is a 'trash and treasure' facility at the
Redland Bay waste transfer station on German Church
Rd, Redland Bay. You can pick up fantastic pre-loved
items such as books, bicycles, gardening books, bric-
a-brac, furniture, toys and spare parts.
Opening hours are 8.00am4.00pm on Thursdays to Sundays.

If you have an unwanted item in good condition
that you think can be used by someone else,
consider donating it to Recycleworld.
There are drop-off areas at Birkdale and
Redland Bay waste transfer stations.

Also whoever claims an abandoned ship on "THE HIGH SEAS OUTSIDE ANY COUNTRIES TERRITORIAL WATERS" owns the ship and anything on it, the people who lost it have to deal with the insurance people as do the people who have goods being shipped on it. The new owner would probably strike deals with all parties concerned but the point is the shipping company he represents is the new owner.

If the local council in say Redland Bay had grates of Motorcycles washing up on Stradbroke Island and they had to clean up the mess and debris, the company who claimed them as their property would be issued with a huge cleanup bill for their time and effort. If no one claimed them they would become the property of the council to dispose of how they determine. I never said collecting kegs washed up on the beach or scavenging on a tipface was legal for an individual. I did however say that I purchased them from a council recycling facility with assurance that they could sell them to me.
If it was illegal for the councils to sell these kegs I'm sure the breweries would have enforced the law on them through the court system. I think you'd find that the breweries could have the kegs back for a fee (probably scrap value) but they wont pay it because all they'ed probaly do with it is scrap it themselves. If they protected their investment better they wouldn't end up at the tip in the first place.

I can understand councils being sympathetic to individual victims of theft, or even a multi national company the victim of large scale theft (pallets of goods stolen from a warehouse), but they don't seem sympathetic to multi national companies that have had the same problems for years trickling through ther system.

In my previous post I mentioned supermarket shopping trolleys, you see them eveywhere, creeks, parks, littering the streets for weeks on end. After the council pays someone to collect them and take them to the tip the supermarkets want them handed back over for free.

Over the last 4 to 5 years I've seen dozens of kegs for sale at these recycle tips and probably most were originally stolen with a few exceptions from demolished hotels. The fact is if I buy one and get charged with recieving stolen goods, the council would have to be charged for selling it to me. Think about it, the laws are designed by local councils to protect local councils. If the breweries wont pay a handling fee to get the kegs back the council gets it back from elsewhere, a customer or a scrap merchant. To a brewery a keg is an asset, to a council it's a rubbish problem to get rid of as quick as they can.

I promise not to say any more on this matter, next time your going past a recycle tip in your area ask them if they ever get an beer kegs in and how much they sell them for. If they do you can always notify the authorities and have them arrested. :unsure:

 

[staggalee]

The public aren't allowed on the tip face all goods for sale are collected and put in a fenced compound and sold off on certain days. Here's the listing from the councils A-Z pdf guide on page 32:

Recycleworld is a 'trash and treasure' facility at the
Redland Bay waste transfer station on German Church
Rd, Redland Bay. You can pick up fantastic pre-loved
items such as books, bicycles, gardening books, bric-
a-brac, furniture, toys and spare parts.
Opening hours are 8.00am4.00pm on Thursdays to Sundays.

If you have an unwanted item in good condition
that you think can be used by someone else,
consider donating it to Recycleworld.
There are drop-off areas at Birkdale and
Redland Bay waste transfer stations.

Also whoever claims an abandoned ship on "THE HIGH SEAS OUTSIDE ANY COUNTRIES TERRITORIAL WATERS" owns the ship and anything on it, the people who lost it have to deal with the insurance people as do the people who have goods being shipped on it. The new owner would probably strike deals with all parties concerned but the point is the shipping company he represents is the new owner.

If the local council in say Redland Bay had grates of Motorcycles washing up on Stradbroke Island and they had to clean up the mess and debris, the company who claimed them as their property would be issued with a huge cleanup bill for their time and effort. If no one claimed them they would become the property of the council to dispose of how they determine. I never said collecting kegs washed up on the beach or scavenging on a tipface was legal for an individual. I did however say that I purchased them from a council recycling facility with assurance that they could sell them to me.
If it was illegal for the councils to sell these kegs I'm sure the breweries would have enforced the law on them through the court system. I think you'd find that the breweries could have the kegs back for a fee (probably scrap value) but they wont pay it because all they'ed probaly do with it is scrap it themselves. If they protected their investment better they wouldn't end up at the tip in the first place.

I can understand councils being sympathetic to individual victims of theft, or even a multi national company the victim of large scale theft (pallets of goods stolen from a warehouse), but they don't seem sympathetic to multi national companies that have had the same problems for years trickling through ther system.

In my previous post I mentioned supermarket shopping trolleys, you see them eveywhere, creeks, parks, littering the streets for weeks on end. After the council pays someone to collect them and take them to the tip the supermarkets want them handed back over for free.

Over the last 4 to 5 years I've seen dozens of kegs for sale at these recycle tips and probably most were originally stolen with a few exceptions from demolished hotels. The fact is if I buy one and get charged with recieving stolen goods, the council would have to be charged for selling it to me. Think about it, the laws are designed by local councils to protect local councils. If the breweries wont pay a handling fee to get the kegs back the council gets it back from elsewhere, a customer or a scrap merchant. To a brewery a keg is an asset, to a council it's a rubbish problem to get rid of as quick as they can.

I promise not to say any more on this matter, next time your going past a recycle tip in your area ask them if they ever get an beer kegs in and how much they sell them for. If they do you can always notify the authorities and have them arrested. :unsure:

Amen.

stagga.

 

[peas_and_corn]

The laws are passed by the state governments, not the councils.

 

[schooey]

What a crock the whole thread is, some even taking the opportunity to grandstand with posts to rival The Declaration Of Independence.
Can anyone actually point us to or name an incident where someone was prosecuted for the possesion of a beer keg? :lol:
This would be a joke if it wasn`t so funny, it comes up every few months but no one actually knows of anyone being "caught" for such a henious crime.
Strange, isn`t it? :lol:

stagga.

+1 for that

Didn't SJW call the keg collector from Carlton once upon a time, because of an ebay item or something some such, and told him all about AHB? IIRC at the time there was a minor uproar about it but I haven't heard of him contacting anyone as yeat..... :unsure:

 

[white.grant]

The public aren't allowed on the tip face all goods for sale are collected and put in a fenced compound and sold off on certain days. Here's the listing from the councils A-Z pdf guide on page 32:

Recycleworld is a 'trash and treasure' facility at the
Redland Bay waste transfer station on German Church
Rd, Redland Bay. You can pick up fantastic pre-loved
items such as books, bicycles, gardening books, bric-
a-brac, furniture, toys and spare parts.
Opening hours are 8.00am4.00pm on Thursdays to Sundays.

If you have an unwanted item in good condition
that you think can be used by someone else,
consider donating it to Recycleworld.
There are drop-off areas at Birkdale and
Redland Bay waste transfer stations.

Also whoever claims an abandoned ship on "THE HIGH SEAS OUTSIDE ANY COUNTRIES TERRITORIAL WATERS" owns the ship and anything on it, the people who lost it have to deal with the insurance people as do the people who have goods being shipped on it. The new owner would probably strike deals with all parties concerned but the point is the shipping company he represents is the new owner.

If the local council in say Redland Bay had grates of Motorcycles washing up on Stradbroke Island and they had to clean up the mess and debris, the company who claimed them as their property would be issued with a huge cleanup bill for their time and effort. If no one claimed them they would become the property of the council to dispose of how they determine. I never said collecting kegs washed up on the beach or scavenging on a tipface was legal for an individual. I did however say that I purchased them from a council recycling facility with assurance that they could sell them to me.
If it was illegal for the councils to sell these kegs I'm sure the breweries would have enforced the law on them through the court system. I think you'd find that the breweries could have the kegs back for a fee (probably scrap value) but they wont pay it because all they'ed probaly do with it is scrap it themselves. If they protected their investment better they wouldn't end up at the tip in the first place.

I can understand councils being sympathetic to individual victims of theft, or even a multi national company the victim of large scale theft (pallets of goods stolen from a warehouse), but they don't seem sympathetic to multi national companies that have had the same problems for years trickling through ther system.

In my previous post I mentioned supermarket shopping trolleys, you see them eveywhere, creeks, parks, littering the streets for weeks on end. After the council pays someone to collect them and take them to the tip the supermarkets want them handed back over for free.

Over the last 4 to 5 years I've seen dozens of kegs for sale at these recycle tips and probably most were originally stolen with a few exceptions from demolished hotels. The fact is if I buy one and get charged with recieving stolen goods, the council would have to be charged for selling it to me. Think about it, the laws are designed by local councils to protect local councils. If the breweries wont pay a handling fee to get the kegs back the council gets it back from elsewhere, a customer or a scrap merchant. To a brewery a keg is an asset, to a council it's a rubbish problem to get rid of as quick as they can.

I promise not to say any more on this matter, next time your going past a recycle tip in your area ask them if they ever get an beer kegs in and how much they sell them for. If they do you can always notify the authorities and have them arrested. :unsure:

No worries mate, I was just stating my own personal position informed by a passing acquaintance with the legislation in NSW and that impacting upon Commonwealth waters plus the relevant case law as it applies to basic salvage from scrap yards.

You're still free to make your own decisions about things.


Good luck.

grant

 

[staggalee]

The laws are passed by the state governments, not the councils.

Who cares about the friggin law?
Do you know of a single case of someone busted for illegal possesion of a beer keg?
Yes or no?

stagga.

 

[clean brewer]

Who cares about the friggin law?
Do you know of a single case of someone busted for illegal possesion of a beer keg?
Yes or no?

stagga.

I Googled it but come up with nothing.. :unsure:

 

[Thunderlips]

There was an incident recently when BMW motorbikes (amongst other things) were washed ashore in Spain after a ship ran aground. BMW and their insurers are actively pursuing these assets.

I think you mean England?
Happened last year.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/uk/...en_British_ship

 

[staggalee]

I Googled it but come up with nothing.. :unsure:

not even under "atrocious felonies" ?

stagga.

 

[quantocks]

stealing a beer keg and stealing a milk crate are the same thing. Do you know of anyone being busted for having owned a milk crate?

 

[peas_and_corn]

Who cares about the friggin law?
Do you know of a single case of someone busted for illegal possesion of a beer keg?
Yes or no?

stagga.

Man fined 1000 pounds

 

[Frank]

Slightly OT, but,
Adelaide had a problem last year with copper and brass being stolen from the arms on park benches and name plates off buildings to be cashed in for the $, when the rate was high. There was also a case of a brass lions head being stolen from an Eastern suburb house and cashed in as scrap.
In any industry, especially scrap, there are dodgy operators who will give you a small amount of cash for stolen goods, and sell it to the next person for more than they paid for it. It may be a bit different if Adelaide as we receive cash for empty bottles, so the whole recycling scene is probably a bit bigger, and more dodgy.
Therefore even though someone pays for it, does not make it legal. Knowingly receiving stolen goods is against the law, and ignorance is no excuse.
I do have souvenirs in my house but no kegs that are not 18L Cornie's. :icon_cheers:
Therefore can't answer definitively to which kegs to own legally.
But to contradict myself slightly, I did walk pass a shop in Adelaide that had a 50L poly sankey keg in the window as part of a display. I am going to check what the brand was and make them an offer. These are not in circulation in Australia, so does that make it OK???