What Are You Brewing III

[Tony]

Mate bitter is one of my favourite styles but I just haven't been able to nail it down. I've made about 10 out of the last 60 brews in the last 2 years, and haven't been happy with any of them. What have I leanrt? Marris Otter is muddy and disappointing. Simpler is better. Tried all complex malts like biscuit, aromatic, etc with no great results. Just gotta keep trying.

I have found the same thing. Bitter is a simple style but very difficult to get right.

A few things i have found work well on my attempts:

10% maize along with a simple grain bill of ale malt and about 7 to 10% pale crystal.

mash warm >67 for low attenuation.

Water chemistry: H it TFU

collect a bit of wort and caramelise it while you start your boil and add it in near the end.

try bittering with a 40 min bittering addition and use aroma hops like EKG or styrians to bitter with....... can you say Mmmmmmmmm

cheers

 

[Tony]

Hmmmmm got 87% efficiency to the fermenter

my 1.048 Pilsner is now 1.052

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Mate bitter is one of my favourite styles but I just haven't been able to nail it down. I've made about 10 out of the last 60 brews in the last 2 years, and haven't been happy with any of them. What have I leanrt? Marris Otter is muddy and disappointing. Simpler is better. Tried all complex malts like biscuit, aromatic, etc with no great results. Just gotta keep trying.

What I've noted is that my best English Style Pale Ales come from a simpler grain bill such as (shock horror) BB Ale Malt, or Bairds/TF Perle Malt.

I did a really easy to drink EPA with BB Ale, a little caramalt, and then Willamette at 60 min to 25 IBU. Mashed high to about 1.048, it stopped at 1.018, for around 3.9% ABV.

Tasty for a low abv% beer.

As for today's brew day:

Tony's Monteith's OA Clone
Irish Red Ale

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 25.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.850
Total Hops (g): 20.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.052 (P): 12.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (P): 3.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 4.90 %
Colour (SRM): 10.8 (EBC): 21.3
Bitterness (IBU): 20.8 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
5.000 kg Maris Otter Malt (85.47%)
0.500 kg Wheat Malt, Red (Briess) (8.55%)
0.300 kg Crystal, Heritage (5.13%)
0.050 kg Chocolate, Pale (0.85%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g Pacific Gem Leaf (13.7% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
30.0 g Pacific Gem Leaf (13.7% Alpha) Dry Hopped 7 days

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 67C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 18C with Danstar Nottingham

Depending on efficiency, I may be diluting a little, get an increase volume, and make a quasi-0 min addition (as the wort will be cooler if I dilute).

Had to no-chill, as I didn't freeze little containers of water to chill - but not a major issue. I'm finding that I really only religiously stick to chilling for APA/AIPA - because that 10 minute addition are absolutely paramount to getting the right result (for me).

Happy brewing day on the day off for everyone.

 

[manticle]

Mate bitter is one of my favourite styles but I just haven't been able to nail it down. I've made about 10 out of the last 60 brews in the last 2 years, and haven't been happy with any of them. What have I leanrt? Marris Otter is muddy and disappointing. Simpler is better. Tried all complex malts like biscuit, aromatic, etc with no great results. Just gotta keep trying.

What maris are you using to get muddy?

I use simpsons maris with a bit of biscuit or victory and simpson's heritage crystal and don't find anything to be muddy.

Do you add any brewing salts?

Maybe try some golden promise in place of the maris and see if that makes any difference.

 

[jyo]

Manticle, have you brewed that stout before? It looks great.

 

[manticle]

Always tweaking recipes. Last oatmeal, I think I only used 500g of oats. Also with this one I ended up using more roast than initially planned due to misplacing the roast barley, adding extra choc etc, then finding the RB and adding it in anyway. First runnings looked a bit brown so I added in extra black and RB to the 1st sparge. The recipe as written is what was actually brewed but inexplicably came out 10 gravity points higher so she's a monster.

Building a starter at the moment - hope the balance is OK.

 

[jyo]

Thanks. My last oatmeal was brewed on the cautious side with the roasted malts and it was lacking.

Cheers.

 

[ged]

What maris are you using to get muddy?

I use simpsons maris with a bit of biscuit or victory and simpson's heritage crystal and don't find anything to be muddy.

Do you add any brewing salts?

Maybe try some golden promise in place of the maris and see if that makes any difference.

TF FM MO.
By muddy I mean many things. Literally a bit hazy despite brewbrite, polyclar, cc'ing, filtration. Lacking in focus, clarity and crispness on the palate (and I don't mean an alteration in attenuation). Dull.

I do use GP almost universally now with good results.

Mash temps anywhere from 64-68 depending on style.

Brewing salts include ph5.2 and a balance of caso4 and cacl2 (usu 2 tbsp in 45l).

I am pretty fussy and critical. None of these have been bad beers. But they aren't equal to the great English bitters. They lack clarity and precision on the palate

 

[manticle]

Interesting. I find most UK yeasts leave a pretty bright beer and I don't fine anything except my kettle these days.

I've not tried the TF maris - only their gp which is nice. I'm a huge fan of all simpsons products, including their heritage crystal.

I'm wary of 5.2. I'd prefer to use calcium salts and phosphoric acid to control my pH. What's your base water like?

I step mash everything now including my UK beers. That's not to say you wouldn't find them muddy as your palate may differ to mine but I reckon my grist is getting closer and closer to what I want. I agree with simple but find great results in the maris and biscuit malts.

 

[pk.sax]

Might be a yeast thing. I brewed an English pale ale recently using the CB English ale dried yeast blend. Bottled samples were awesome, the yeast settled out and the beer was tasty. The kegged version was a bit of a letdown, the yeast just refuses to settle out and masks the beautiful late hop character, also a bit I astringency got picked up during a cpbf run. Haven't nailed that down to anything yet.
Used bog standard cryer pale malt. So can't be a MO thing in my case.
Next time I'm going to avoid the cb dry English yeast unless I plan to bottle the lot.

 

[Tony]

TF FM MO.
By muddy I mean many things. Literally a bit hazy despite brewbrite, polyclar, cc'ing, filtration. Lacking in focus, clarity and crispness on the palate (and I don't mean an alteration in attenuation). Dull.

52 deg protein rest for 10 min and then apply the 90/90 rule when using MO.

90 min mash
90 min boil

I find this helps, and get no muddiness. I also use TF FM MO.... love the stuff!

cheers

 

[bradsbrew]

The brewery is set up and ready for this one in the morning.


10/04/12 English pale ale
Special/Best/Premium Bitter

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 66.0
Total Grain (kg): 12.400
Total Hops (g): 220.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.048 (P): 11.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (P): 3.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 4.72 %
Colour (SRM): 8.0 (EBC): 15.7
Bitterness (IBU): 32.0 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 81
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
10.000 kg Golden Promise Malt (80.65%)
2.000 kg Munich I (16.13%)
0.300 kg Crystal 90 (2.42%)
0.100 kg Chocolate, Pale (0.81%)

Hop Bill
----------------
40.0 g Aurora Pellet (10.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
40.0 g Willamette Pellet (7.1% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
80.0 g Styrian Golding Pellet (4.4% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (1.2 g/L)
60.0 g Styrian Golding Pellet (4.4% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (0.9 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 65C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 19C with

Notes
----------------
dry hop split into 3 cubes

Recipe Generated with BrewMate[/b

 

[winkle]

Irish Red mashing in....
still figuring out what the second batch will be - probably a Rootin' Saison

 

[Wolfman]

What's recipe for the Irish red winkle?

 

[peaky]

Back To Basics Pale Ale.

Simpsons Maris Otter 100%
Cascade @ 60min to 17 IBU
Cascade @ 20min to 10 IBU
Irish moss @ 10min
Cascade @ 0min
Wyeast 1332

Mashed for 60min at 67 degrees.

Had a bit of Maris to get through and some Cascade that needed to be used up so thought I'd try it as my first SMaSH beer. The IBU is a lot lower than I'm normally used to but that's all the Cascade I had left. It might make a nice change, who knows.

 

[tazman1967]

Ive almost finished the mash for Tony's Monteith's Original Ale Clone... smells good.

 

[manticle]

Can someone tell me when a mash doesn't smell good (besides 20 hours later if you haven't cleaned up)?

Brewing a dry stout tomorrow - similar grain bill and method to the aforementioned oatmeal but without the oats and using 1084.

 

[brewtas]

I've got a Rye IPA mashing as I type. It's just an 11.5l batch.

2.8kg JW Pale malt
500g Rye malt
150g Crystal malt (120 ebc)

Citra, Columbus and Amarillo to 60 IBU.

US-05

Something big and hoppy to go along with NBA playoffs viewing.

 

[winkle]

What's recipe for the Irish red winkle?

Mahaffeys' Eire-ish Red
Irish Red Ale
Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 22.00 l
Boil Size: 31.09 l
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot and Cooler (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 26.82 l Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 19.16 l Est Mash Efficiency 84.4 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 93.8 %
0.25 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 2 5.2 %
0.05 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) (1398.7 EBC) Grain 3 1.0 %
25.00 g Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 22.6 IBUs
0.29 tsp Kopperfloc (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 5 -
15.00 g Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Aroma Steep 15.0 min Hop 6 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084) [124.21 ml] Yeast 7 -
1.22 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Other 8 -
15.00 g Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.049 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.6 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 22.6 IBUs Calories: 427.1 kcal/l
Est Color: 30.5 EBC
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 4.80 kg
Sparge Water: 23.38 l Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C Tun Temperature: 22.2 C
Mash PH: 5.20

 

[Wolfman]

Cheers mate.