We are being ripped off

[Dave70]

A recent trip to Northern Europe highlighted how expensive beer is in this country.

A couple of examples:

A small, independent Belgian brewery: 6-pack of mixed (i.e. triple/dubbel/brune) bottles of 6-7% beer for 11 euros ~ $16.
6-pack of leffe blonde in australia = $30 (sure there's transportation and all, but isn't Leffe a mass produced beer?).
6-pack of interesting 4-5% beer from a small, independent Australian brewery: $25

3 pints of industrial English ale (e.g. London Pride, Bishops Finger, etc. things you'd see in the specialty international aisle of chain bottle-shops) in UK supermarket: 5 GBP ~ $8.50.
1 pint of similar in Australia would be $8-9
1 pint of something interesting, e.g. Little Creatures is probably $6 or so.

Or, alternatively in Australia, I can buy a 12-15% 750mL bottle of death-bag wine in a bottle for about $4 from the supermarket.

Why is it so?

Lets pretend we discovered alcohol yesterday and tried to pitch it. A carcinogenic disinhibivitive psychoactive substance with a lethal threshold of around 7g per kg of bodyweight and basically a net negative effect on health overall. Not to mention costing the community in the order of 15 billion per year by way of hospitalizations, lost production, justice system etc.
To say it would never fly is beyond an understatement.

Even a cursory glance at the laundry list of substances, most of which have no lethal dose, and are freely available in other countries, that have either been classified schedule 4 by the TGA or criminalized outright should convince anybody that its a small miracle grog, and furthermore, the private manufacturer of, is even legal in Australia, let alone cheap / expensive.

Its a bit of a worry.
To badly paraphrase Martin Niemöller, 'First they came for the homebrewers'..

Devils advocacy aside, I've paid about 50 Czech koruna in Prauge - about $2.50 AUD for a pint of draught Urquell.
So yeah, we get fucked on alcohol.

 

[Yuz]

Nothing has changed because the decision would send a large number of the grapegrowers in the Riverina and the Riverland broke. They are already being paid unsustainable prices for grapes, this would wipe out something like half of their market and prices would get even worse.

OT / Rant material but sort of relates...
As an observer of recent events and directions in general, it's like someone flicked the "OFF" switch for Australia. Resources, Manufacturing, Energy, Housing, Law / Policing, Migration - it's like a grand and deliberate attempt to f things up. Permanently.
They're just being careful with the grog side of things since if they f that up too, they'll be a mass revolt.

 

[Moad]

I would save a fortune if home brew was outlawed

 

[MHB]

Lets pretend we discovered alcohol yesterday and tried to pitch it. Snip

You couldn't even get potatoes onto the market under existing law - they can be left in the sun until they turn green and toxic - so no chance, wouldn't even think of talking about tobacco.

Not saying that a lot of things in our society don't really make sense, just that we all need to look at the bigger picture not just the bit that annoys the hell out of us at any given moment.
Mark

 

[Dave70]

You couldn't even get potatoes onto the market under existing law - they can be left in the sun until they turn green and toxic - so no chance, wouldn't even think of talking about tobacco.

Not saying that a lot of things in our society don't really make sense, just that we all need to look at the bigger picture not just the bit that annoys the hell out of us at any given moment.
Mark

When life gives you potatoes..

 

[Bridges]

On a holiday once to central Australia I was waiting for the bottlo to open in Alice Plaza so I could get a six pack of something as we were on our way out of town for a couple of days, I was waiting with a lot of people who I would say had some issues with alcohol, not one of them got beer. When the doors were thrown open they all went for the cask tawny 2 litres at about 16% for about $8. That there is where there needs to be some taxation equalization. Not on your sixer of berliner weisse or rodenbach, but the goon of fortified wine, I think I know which is doing more damage.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

and now for a brief interlude for comic relief:

 

[mondestrunken]

A carcinogenic disinhibivitive psychoactive substance with a lethal threshold of around 7g per kg of bodyweight and basically a net negative effect on health overall.

Sounds good! Where can I get me some?

 

[Dave70]

Sounds good! Where can I get me some?

Bunnings Warehouse!!

 

[manticle]

On a holiday once to central Australia I was waiting for the bottlo to open in Alice Plaza so I could get a six pack of something as we were on our way out of town for a couple of days, I was waiting with a lot of people who I would say had some issues with alcohol, not one of them got beer. When the doors were thrown open they all went for the cask tawny 2 litres at about 16% for about $8. That there is where there needs to be some taxation equalization. Not on your sixer of berliner weisse or rodenbach, but the goon of fortified wine, I think I know which is doing more damage.

Question is whether taxing the vices of lower socio economic groups is merely punitive or effective in terms of harm minimisation. Every person and their dog in my suburb still smokes, despite the exorbitant price of a pack of 50 blank label shitsticks.

 

[koshari]

What about event pricing? $9.00 for a small plastic cup of coopers pale ale is simply taking the piss ( no pun intended) . Dont get me wrong i like a nice drip of coopers but refuse to pay 9 bucks on principle.

At a metallica concert in praha in 99 i was drinking half litres of starapramen for under aussie dollar!

 

[Bridges]

I do agree Mants those same people would still flock in to buy their morning cask of goon, I just saw that there were a group of people that were really harming themselves, and think that equalization where all forms of alcohol are taxed equally may mean that the pace of said harm is slowed a bit as there is no standout "bang for buck" type alcohol to be had. By the same token maybe your neighbors have cut back from a pack a day to a couple of dozen ciggies a day. I really hate the idea of lower socio economic groups copping it, and I think the taxes on beer and cigs (I've never smoked and hate the things) are way over the top and grossly unfair, traditionally a beer and a ciggie were the only indulgences some people could enjoy. I do get the argument that they cost our community a lot in healthcare and other areas but putting GST on an excise is a scam that only a government could get away with...

So yeah we are being ripped off...

 

[MHB]

There is actually an offset at the point where Excise is calculated, You get to take around 1.15% off the alcohol content before paying the tax, this is to compensate for the Tax on a Tax situation.
https://www.ato.gov.au/business/exc...oods/alcohol-excise/excise-rates-for-alcohol/
At the bottom of the page is a link to "Beer" follow it for more information on how to do the calculation.
Mark

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

There is actually an offset at the point where Excise is calculated, You get to take around 1.15% off the alcohol content before paying the tax, this is to compensate for the Tax on a Tax situation.

My understanding is that was introduced a long time before the GST and for two reasons: so that excise is not payable on "no alcohol" beer* and to skew the excise so that light beers paid less.

You can tell how old it is by the number: 1.15% ABV is 2 degrees proof in the old English system where that mixture of alcohol and water that just allowed standard Royal Navy gunpowder to light was "proven".


* Most methods of producing "no alcohol" beer leave ~1% ABV behind.

 

[Mardoo]

Bunnings Warehouse!!

Man, I used to live in a neighbourhood full of chromers. That is some fucked up shit. Had a few beers in my front yard one day with one of the guys, and he started talking about the faculties that he knew he had lost - that his memory was fucked and he couldn’t tell the difference between reality and imagination, that his vision just went away randomly, that he had no interest in sex, and couldn’t always control his bowels. Said, “Guess it’s just my life now, huh?” And cried his eyes out. **** me. Hardest conversation ever. The worst part was that he knew those things were never coming back.

Sorry, back on topic…

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Question is whether taxing the vices of lower socio economic groups is merely punitive or effective in terms of harm minimisation. Every person and their dog in my suburb still smokes, despite the exorbitant price of a pack of 50 blank label shitsticks.

In Mexico they have put a 10% tax on soft drinks (sugar tax) and for 2 years running have seen a drop in consumption. Tobacco use here would surely be down compared to 20 years ago, I have no idea of the cost but if people are still smoking then surely it is not enough.

 

[malt junkie]

In Mexico they have put a 10% tax on soft drinks (sugar tax) and for 2 years running have seen a drop in consumption. Tobacco use here would surely be down compared to 20 years ago, I have no idea of the cost but if people are still smoking then surely it is not enough.

You don't cure any addiction, by sending people broke, you create larger problems.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

You don't cure any addiction, by sending people broke, you create larger problems.

I would say death is worse than broke, broke you can get over, death is irreversible.

 

[Bribie G]

Lots fail because they are not good at running a business.
No different to many of the other small businesses which fail.
Many small business owners do not have a proper business plan, no vision as to what they want to achieve, no proper monitoring and analysis of their costs and financial performance, no marketing plan, no projections, no cost control, etc etc, and are also often under capitalised. The result is that they revert back to a "comfort zone" doing the activity of the business without managing it. I've seen it with two of my wife's close relatives, one of which went bust in 2 different small businesses.

As a former Allens Sweets, then Rothmans, rep I've seen literally thousands of small businesses. In my case they were nearly all in the retail / service sector but what warra refers to would apply to all small business.

It struck me (and ask any rep they'd probably agree) that a good proportion of small businesses are started by people who either want to buy themselves a job or, worse, are totally unemployable in the real world.
How often do you see (for example in the local rag) .. after being made redundant from the engineering company Robert decided to follow his lifelong dream and finally realise his plan to manufacture and sell widgets...

Many buy themselves a "lifestyle". ... Helen and Harry felt they were getting nowhere in their medical careers in Sydney and wanted a better lifestyle for their kids - they felt that they deserved better than living in Blacktown. Then the opportunity came to move to Hervey Bay to take over the Golden Goldfish takeaway and souvenir shop .. the ideal sea change...

You could always tell the lifestylers, when I parked behind the row of shops you could count off the BMW SUV's, the Toyota Celicas for the wives - all leased of course .. Oh Harry's not in today he's playing volleyball....

Having said that I'd be the world's worst small businessman. I'm not hard arsed or full-of-myself enough. Give me the quiet life.

 

[Bribie G]

That's the equivalent of us paying about $33 for our more common 4L wine cask.

Really stopped preloading and bingeing over there didn't it.