Transferring from kettle to fermenter

[citizensnips]

For a long part of my AG (BIAB) life I used to finish the boil, seal the keggle with multiple layers of glad wrap and then put an o ring as well as an ocky strap around it to seal it. Afterwards I would spray the whole thing with star san every few hours and then leave it over night to cool. In the morning all the trub had settled completely out and I would transfer it to my fermenter and pitch. I never got an infection however was attracted to the idea of being able to pitch the yeast on the same day of brewing as well as be able to have more control over my hop additions.....hence I bought an immersion chiller. Since owning this chiller however I haven't been too impressed with the whole process and I was hoping some here could lend some knowledge and suggest a better method to what I'm doing. At the moment I'm just transferring the wort out of the kettle (trub and all mixed up in it) into a sanitised fermenter, from here I then wait around an hour or so for the trub to settle out where I then transfer it to my primary fermenter, from there I have to cool it down further in the fridge (summer has water temps around 25ish) and then pitch my yeast. What I'm thinking is this method is in my opinion at greater risk of exposing the beer to containments than was my previous no chill attempts as it's being transferred twice to new vessels without having the yeast pitched for about 4 hours after flame out whereas previously at least it was never exposed to transfers until pitch and had the benefit of using the steam from the kettle to further sanitise once sealed.
Currently this method just seems plain inefficient and ineffective. What's everyone's thoughts or methods for getting the beer to pitching temps asap in summer as well as removing trub as quickly as possible? I thought maybe it's just the downside to BIAB and you can't really avoid the immense about of trub there seems to be left over in the kettle, perhaps a filter of some form?. When you whirlpool hhow long does it take for all the trub to settle out? When I gave it a crack it didn't seem to work to well and waiting for the trub to settle seemed a little dumb as it would have been exposed to the surrounding air for at the very least half an hour.
Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Snips

 

[Pogierob]

I do the boil.
Let.sit.for 20
Whirlpool
Let sit for 20
Transfer to a cube
Seal and.let cool overnight
I then store the cube in my fermenting chamber and.pitch my yeast at leisure. Be it the day after or a couple of weeks.

 

[Eagleburger]

finish boil.
pump through 1/2" counter flow chiller down to 60degC.
Let settle and brewbrite do its job for 15mins.
gravity feed into fermenter via a plate chiller.
clean up.
Pitch yeast.

At 60degC the convection currents have stopped but is still warm enough for the trub to drop rapidly, 1/2" bore cfc doesnt get blocked but is to slow after 50degC,

I dont bother whirlpooling any more. The kettle outlet is 25mm from the bottom of the kettle and doesnt get any trub till I tilt the kettle at teh end,

 

[_Mick_]

Finish Boil
Recirc through CFC to create a whirlpool until just warm to touch
let it sit for 15-20min to settle
back through CFC into FV
if not already at pitch temp it goes into the ferm fridge untill its at the correct temp.

 

[_Mick_]

Before I had my pumps and CFC, I used an imersion chiller, as follows;
10mins left in the boil put in IC
Flame out, wait for convection currents to stop.
Tap water through IC whislt creating a whirlpool with a SS spoon arount the IC,
let it settle and cool to touch,
into FV then to the fridge to cool to pitch temp.

Always had good results, little to no trub into the FV.

 

[Dan Pratt]

an eperiment about trub v's non trub that had interesting results.

http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/

 

[citizensnips]

Interesting little experiment there, I think I'd read that a little while ago. Nice to know that it doesn't necessarily impart a negative flavour to the beer. Might I add I do swirl the wort around with my IC otherwise it just seems to create 'cool spots' in the wort and not actually continue to heat the rest of it down. I'm looking into getting a 'hop bazooka' mesh screen or whatever you call them. My only concern is it may not really remove grain trub that well? Anyone have any experience with these bad boys?

 

[verysupple]

I use an IC and use a little brown pump to recirculate tap water through it. It helps a lot to stir the wort with a sanitised spoon. When the tap water gets hot you can either keep it for cleaning later or tip it (wasteful). I then recirculate iced water to get down to pitching temp. This whole process takes me about half an hour with a pretty small IC (6 m).

If I can be bothered separating the wort from the trub (rarely bother except for pale lagers) I'll then let it sit for ~30 min and by then the wort is pretty darn clear (I use BrewBrite in the kettle which helps). You can then carefully siphon / drain from the valve the clear wort into you FV.

EDIT: I should mention that I tried whirlpooling a few times and it didn't really work for me - no "trub cone". Just letting it sit seemed to be just as good.

 

[manticle]

You guys need to practice your whirlpooling technique.

That brulosophy 'experiment' makes my head ache but I won't go into that here.

Citizensnips - what is the purpose of transferring hot wort to a fermenter before chilling and transferring again? I'm a no chiller so won't advise too much on effective chilling regimes but there are methods you can use to get the wort cooler wuciker. Prechilling and flow rate are two things that come to mind.

Any reason you can't let the wort stand for 10-20 minutes to let convection settle,whirlpool and let stand another 10-20 to let trub settle before chilling? This is what I do before transferring to my cube and the wort is still 80+ degrees so no major concerns about exposure to microbes. As mentioned, I'm not a chiller so I may have missed something.

 

[citizensnips]

.

Citizensnips - what is the purpose of transferring hot wort to a fermenter before chilling and transferring again? I'm a no chiller so won't advise too much on effective chilling regimes but there are methods you can use to get the wort cooler wuciker. Prechilling and flow rate are two things that come to mind.

Any reason you can't let the wort stand for 10-20 minutes to let convection settle,whirlpool and let stand another 10-20 to let trub settle before chilling? This is what I do before transferring to my cube and the wort is still 80+ degrees so no major concerns about exposure to microbes. As mentioned, I'm not a chiller so I may have missed something.

The purpose of transferring is due to not wanting to leave 25 degree wort in the kettle and waiting half an hour for it all to settle out as well as by having it in a sanitised container I can begin to bring it down to pitching temp.
What you say about leaving for 10-20, whirpooling and then another 10,20 before chilling does make a lot of sense. I was being a little over cautious and didn't even consider the fact the temp is well over 75 degrees for quite some time after flame out. My only concern is as I said before when I use the immersion chiller it ends up running pretty cool but as soon as I agitate it a little it comes out hot again, hence why I'd be questioning its ability to effectively chill by just leaving it in one spot the entire time. That said I'm assuming I'd probably just use more water at the cost of clear wort.

 

[manticle]

I thought you were transferring to the fermenter hot. However the kettle you have just boiled in for 60+ minutes will be at least as sanitised as that fermenter so I would question the need for this step.

 

[TimT]

Just on the whole 'cube no chill' method, which is kinda related to this topic, is there any risk of toxins/unwanted chemicals from the cube plastic getting into the brew? What sort of plastic is the cube made out of?

(I used to think my little glass demijohns were pretty natty and I've sterilised them once or twice with boiling water; when one cracked recently when I was just filling it with hot water I had second thoughts about that. They may not be suitable for no-chill.)

 

[sponge]

Pretty sure NC cubes are HDPE2 and rated to 110'C (wiki link). More than happy to be corrected on that though.

I normally give them a soak with sodium perc after purchasing to remove any plastic smell. Haven't had any issues with them (touch wood), but also thought that about my daily morning frozen mixed berries..

 

[_Mick_]

HDPE, you can get them from bunnings in various sizes, im not a no-chiller but been entertaing the idea to speed up a brew day and also see the differences myself.

 

[Milk-lizard84]

I no chill as well and have never had any bad tastes from the plastic. I usually soak after use with sodium perc then rinse out and santize before filling again.
I was actually thinking of buying a bigger immersion chiller though for certain beers.

 

[Nizmoose]

I normally give them a soak with sodium perc after purchasing to remove any plastic smell. Haven't had any issues with them (touch wood), but also thought that about my daily morning frozen mixed berries..

Nannas is never going to live this down

 

[manticle]

Just on the whole 'cube no chill' method, which is kinda related to this topic, is there any risk of toxins/unwanted chemicals from the cube plastic getting into the brew? What sort of plastic is the cube made out of?

(I used to think my little glass demijohns were pretty natty and I've sterilised them once or twice with boiling water; when one cracked recently when I was just filling it with hot water I had second thoughts about that. They may not be suitable for no-chill.)

High density polyethylene, no known toxins, no off flavours in my (and many others' experience). It's a pretty sound method if you do it right.

If running hot liquid into a demijohn, warm it slightly first as it's the thermal shock that leads to cracking.

 

[TimT]

Ta Manticle. A lot of folks hereabouts are v. fond of the no-chill method so I'll take that as an endorsement!

That's the funny thing with this demijohn - it was actually a very warm day. As I mentioned I've actually poured boiling water into them before and I've taken care to fill them with hot water before that (and plonk them in a sink of hot water), to raise the temperature of the glass and temper it, as it were.

Maybe this one was just a dud.

 

[Tresston24]

A friend of mine recommended I Google a "bazooka" for the same problem. It's a braided stainless steel line that attaches to the coupler on the inside of your kettle. Basically it lets wort run through without all the debris.

 

[rude]

I've tried termimesh in the kettle as a filter but was a pain got blocked
I do 90 min boils 60 min sometimes 5 min & cube hop additions straight in the kettle, cube
Then I fill the cube up straight away leaving 2-3 litres in kettle
My beers allowing for N/C on Brewmate at 28 -30 ibu are too bitter find around low 20 ibu better
Also they do have a bite to them are quite clear but not bright
Have ordered some stainless tea balls for hop additions will try them
Also will have to try Manticles whirpool then transfer method
Would love a stainless steel cube to N/C in & will have to chill one day