Time For A "welcome To Ahb" Forum.

[PistolPatch]

Five years ago, I remember several people putting a fair bit of thought and time into working out how to make AHB welcoming and informative to new brewers. A few FAQ threads were written (one active tonight) and this lead to the AHB Wikki (which is a topic that needs a whole other thread .)

I don't think anyone could criticise me in my desire to help out new brewers. I now seem to hardly have the time to even help new BIABrewer's properly so why am I bothering writing here tonight?...

What worries me is that when I have the time to browse AHB, I see a few brewers bending over backwards to help others whilst a few others (some with way too big post counts) plainly scoff at new brewers apparent "ignorance". According to them, they knew everything about brewing since birth and the rest of us should be laughed at. (These guys aren't even great brewers.)

I've been brewing on and off for over twenty five years now and there are heaps of questions I can't answer on brewing and never will be able to. It took me over twenty unnecessary years just to find a brewing method that actually gave me great beer!

So, where should a new brewer start?

If you click on the AHB home page? there is nothing to welcome or direct the new brewer. It is bloody hard for them. The smart arses tell them to search etc. You try it! It often takes me hours to find a thread I have written to!

Isn't it time that when you clicked on the AHB logo or home page that the first thing you see at the top is a, "Welcome to New Members," forum? And, within that forum, which should be the most highly moderated one, the new member can easily find FAQ's., Wikki links etc.? (I seriously can never even find the forum that contains the FAQs that I spent hours to help write!)

I think this forum should be the most highly moderated as new brewers need the best and most dedicated information. They certainly don't need brewers who are "above" them making posts of no value or simply frivolous.

I have learned some amazing things from new brewers I have helped or met. Many of them have quickly developed skills I will never have such as in recipe formulation. New brewers are a gold mine of information, skills, challenges and, more importantly, friendship.

I think it's about time we (if I am allowed to say that) at AHB gave them a welcome mat.

Until we do, I'm seriously not at home here.

and <_<.
Pat

P.S. No edits so I can't even correct my topic title capitalisation - I hate that!!!

 

[Steve]

Something like that is a good idea but It'll never happen Pat. You summed up a lot of posts in the "How would you change AHB". How long has that thread being run without anything happening or at least its existence being acknowledged? Seem to recall Dane mentioning a few months ago that there'll be some changes tp AHB? Who would moderate the new forum? Only appears to be AndrewQLD regularly moderating these days. The best and most dedicated information posters you mention (who I learnt from) dont post here anymore, they're off to bigger and better things usually all beer related (half their luck). How would you know that the people answering questions in the beginners forum are giving the best information?
Cheers
Steve

 

[bradsbrew]

Good idea Pat, you will get the people who are going to say but there is already this forum and that forum and they should use them. But some/most new members will not know how to use them. I would like to see included in this forum or a wiki of how to efficiently and successfully perform a search........... I constantly see the do a search or a quick search found me this......but not very often see the pathway that the searcher used. I for one i am crap at performing searches. So a how to search would be of great benefit.

Cheers

 

[Benniee]

I agree with the general trend in posts on AHB that Pat is talking about - but I'm not sure that a "welcome" forum or thread is really going to solve that.

If you look at some of the other brewing forums there doesn't seem to be as many of the unhelpful posts as we are currently generating here, and when they do appear the other posters seem to ignore them. I do enjoy some of the banter between posters but I believe it should be in the relevant forums, not in a thread where a new brewing is asking for help. Take homebrewtalk for example, and even the brewing network forums have a fair bit of banter and joking - but from what I've read it doesn't often resort to that on a thread where someone is asking for help/advice.

I also don't believe that posting a "do a search" reply adds anything. It usually stands out when a poster with a low post count asks a question that they probably aren't proficient with all the sites features.

At the risk of being a little bit cynical - as long as AHB is generating traffic will the site operator really think there is a problem? Perhaps it will take a substantial reduction in active members before any changes occur. And having said that I'm not really sure what changes could be made as it seems to be a culture amongst the members rather than anything to do with the structure of the site. Possibly a friendly reminder at the top of the page to try and post helpful posts - something like what appears in the bulk buy forum now.

I am saddened by the number of good brewers that I know who openly state that they rarely read/post on AHB anymore.

Benniee

 

[Screwtop]

Five years ago, I remember several people putting a fair bit of thought and time into working out how to make AHB welcoming and informative to new brewers. A few FAQ threads were written (one active tonight) and this lead to the AHB Wikki (which is a topic that needs a whole other thread .)

I don't think anyone could criticise me in my desire to help out new brewers. ................................................................................
................................................................................
.
................................................................................
.
.....blah blah blah blah!!

Look out the sky is falling .........................again :lol: :lol:

Apologies for replying to a frivilous thread with a frivilous post

Screwy

 

[kevin_smevin]

I dont think its a bad idea. I recently recommended AHB to a fellow brewer. They took my advice and signed up but the next time i saw them they told me how hard it was to find any info, and that they had next to no luck using the search function. Worst of all, they were shot down with very negative comments upon their first post and i doubt they will be back. There can be alot of anger and negativity on this site sometimes, which is a real shame if that's your first impression because you could stand to learn alot here.

 

[DU99]

If mods dont want to do whats required of them,they should moved along..

 

[Bribie G]

AHB forum seems to be like other forums (non beer) I have been on, where trolling / argumentative posters seem to happen in waves then quieten down again. One reason I hardly ever post on DTV forum (digital TV etc) is that there was a severe outbreak of trolling and cat fights about 2 years ago, and even had a couple of members posting that I should Piss off back to the UK etc. but whenever I pop onto DTV nowadays it's very very tame - "what colour leads should I get for my Playstation and my airlock isn't bubbling". Actually AHB is a lot more user friendly than this time last year in the kitten strangling days - hope it stays that way.
However I do agree that you should only post helpful replies in the noob sections. It's only two and a bit years since I picked up my first tin of Coopers Stout and most of what I've learned about brewing I have learned here and at BABBs - I've poked my nose into Palmer's How to Brew a couple of times but very infrequently.

 

[staggalee]

​

If mods dont want to do whats required of them,they should moved along..

They mustn`t have seen that yet :lol:

stagga.

 

[pk.sax]

I think even arguments in beginner forums help ppl as long as there aren't too many egos attached. I have a bit of a feeling that when questions are asked even some of the more experienced members don't immediately respond because of the somewhat impolite criticism that will follow. It is a little discouraging.

Only thing I can think of (from running a game forum in the past) is that unnecessarily offensive posts be moderated out. Banter is good, aggressive bashing is definitely not welcome.

Anyway, this is what a relatively very new member (and brewer) thinks, i.e. me.
On the + side, I have improved over 3 brews more than I could otherwise imagine thanks to the information here.

 

[[email protected]]

Maybe a quick one liner at the top of the page to point new brewers to the search button. It works a treat... <_<

Booz

 

[barls]

If mods dont want to do whats required of them,they should moved along..

in defence of the mods, as a mod on another forum, sometimes the mods dont have the power to do what we ask of them as it requires a major change from the admins or the owner of the forum to get what is requested done.
also the mods are unpaid in most places and are only doing what is required to keep the forum running smoothly and out of trouble.

 

[jayse]

If I may, allow me to debate possibly another side of the arguement, any personal opinions aside maybe.

You talk of continually making it easier and easier for new brewers, where does it stop? when you just post hey mate don't worry about it I'll just come around and brew your beer for you.
I can't see how any brewer cannot find the info they are after wether it be internet, books, brewshops or coming down the bar and having a beer with you if they really want.
You want to make it so easy why? how about incouraging the brewers to learn rather then be told? if someone can't find the info they are after it would say to me they are too lazy and are not that interested in actually learning.
These brewers need to learn not just be told what to do and part of that learning is researching, if you take that researching part away and just tell them what to do then what?

I don't mean to sound negative or offend just pointing out there maybe is another side to this debate.

I think incouraging to research and learn properly is much better, sure some might not be too interested and just use forums to get simple questions answered, but where does it end?

That sort of approach works if you are a sub handy man and think hey I don't know much about, lets say cars, and don't really need to know but I think I can fix this or that if I can get someone to answer this simple question. I do that all the time, I am sure people do that all the time with many things.
So is it for these type of people you intend this to be for?

Again not trying to stir shit, nothing personal just opening up a debate.

 

[bradsbrew]

If I may, allow me to debate possibly another side of the arguement, any personal opinions aside maybe.

You talk of continually making it easier and easier for new brewers, where does it stop? when you just post hey mate don't worry about it I'll just come around and brew your beer for you.
I can't see how any brewer cannot find the info they are after wether it be internet, books, brewshops or coming down the bar and having a beer with you if they really want.
You want to make it so easy why? how about incouraging the brewers to learn rather then be told? if someone can't find the info they are after it would say to me they are too lazy and are not that interested in actually learning.
These brewers need to learn not just be told what to do and part of that learning is researching, if you take that researching part away and just tell them what to do then what?

I don't mean to sound negative or offend just pointing out there maybe is another side to this debate.

I think incouraging to research and learn properly is much better, sure some might not be too interested and just use forums to get simple questions answered, but where does it end?

That sort of approach works if you are a sub handy man and think hey I don't know much about, lets say cars, and don't really need to know but I think I can fix this or that if I can get someone to answer this simple question. I do that all the time, I am sure people do that all the time with many things.
So is it for these type of people you intend this to be for?

Again not trying to stir shit, nothing personal just opening up a debate.

I agree 100% with this Jayse. I would just like to see some more info on how to use the search function better.

 

[yardy]

New brewers are a gold mine of information, skills (snip........

well if they're such a plethora of info, skills etc, why do they ask such stupid bloody questions ?



only joking Pat, I'm with Jayse on this one :icon_cheers:

Dave

 

[bconnery]

If I may, allow me to debate possibly another side of the arguement, any personal opinions aside maybe.

You talk of continually making it easier and easier for new brewers, where does it stop? when you just post hey mate don't worry about it I'll just come around and brew your beer for you.
I can't see how any brewer cannot find the info they are after wether it be internet, books, brewshops or coming down the bar and having a beer with you if they really want.
You want to make it so easy why? how about incouraging the brewers to learn rather then be told? if someone can't find the info they are after it would say to me they are too lazy and are not that interested in actually learning.
These brewers need to learn not just be told what to do and part of that learning is researching, if you take that researching part away and just tell them what to do then what?

I don't mean to sound negative or offend just pointing out there maybe is another side to this debate.

I think incouraging to research and learn properly is much better, sure some might not be too interested and just use forums to get simple questions answered, but where does it end?

That sort of approach works if you are a sub handy man and think hey I don't know much about, lets say cars, and don't really need to know but I think I can fix this or that if I can get someone to answer this simple question. I do that all the time, I am sure people do that all the time with many things.
So is it for these type of people you intend this to be for?

Again not trying to stir shit, nothing personal just opening up a debate.

I agree with this.
I moved from kits to kits and bits to extract before I ever found AHB.
I did so by reading information out there and by making beer.

Just being given the answers doesn't make you learn.

I agree with what many have stated in that the manner to which some are replying could be improved but I also do feel that many new posters could take a little more effort to find out the information.

As for Pat's original post, isn't this a start? http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...?showtopic=9233
It's airlocked in the Kits forum, where I assume it is assumed many newbie posters will visit.
Why have a separate forum when this is kind of the default new member forum?

If you are a new member but doing another method of brewing then you must have at least enough expertise (and I don't mean extract or AG brewers are more expert, but they must have come to some knowledge of their chosen style of brewing) to read posts in those forums and understand the answers.

To ask for this new forum to be heavily moderated also places additional demand on people who already volunteer their time to do a job for which no-one really thanks them, even if we may or may not agree with the manner in which they are doing it...

 

[AndrewQLD]

And to add to Jayse's comments, why is there now a need to "make things easier" for new brewers/members? Is it because the site format has changed and it's harder to use than it has been since it's inception? Or is it because some members can't be arsed to reply to new brewers basic questions with intelligent answers but are quite prepared to reply with meaningless rhetoric and smart arsed comments.
If it's the former then yes something should be done, but I don't think it is.
If it's the latter then no improvements or changes to the site as suggested in some of the earlier posts will make any difference as these rubbish poster will still throw in their two cents worth regardless.

If people don't want to help someone they shouldn't comment in a thread at all, but it seems a mentality of post as much as you can regardless of the quality of content seems to have crept in. Mind you it seems to have settled down a little in the last six months or so.

Why not, if you want to suggest searching in a thread at least include a link or two yourself to show it can be done and to also be helpful to boot.

Like Jayse I'm not having a go but while it's easy to blame the site or blame Admin or Mods we're all here as members of a forum that is based on mutual sharing and help.

Andrew

 

[Silo Ted]

In my short time here I can already recognise the consistently rude and negative members. Fortunately theres only a handful of regular and consistent bitter lemons. If nothing of value can be said to a new brewer, then why do people feel the need to comment at all ? Your post count isnt that important. It wont kill you to just move onto another thread, and let your bullshit out on another post if you want to start bailting or having some fun. Leave the newbie questions and answers to those who wish to help, and dont get so cranky withy the simple questions. No need for a speacial subforum or welcoming commitee, just for the dickheads and biaters to put a sock in it at these times.

 

[MeLoveBeer]

Biggest problem I can see is the default forum search function... everything else seems fine (as in forum structure etc). Most new users can't use the default search engine effectively (the fact that it can't deal with natural language searches is a PITA) and don't know to use the alternate google option (for a noob not familiar with google search, it seems like the google search would be a search of the entire internet, not just these forums).

I would think that changing the google search to be the default would make it infinitely easier for new forum users to find the information they need and relieve a fair bit of tension around here.

 

[Silo Ted]

I would think that changing the google search to be the default would make it infinitely easier for new forum users to find the information they need and relieve a fair bit of tension around here.

You assume that everyone hates helping out with the basic questions. That doesnt seem to be the case at all, theres plenty of understanding members who are fine with ansewering new brewer queries without feeling any tension. Pure and simply, the impatient members just need to skip the threads they dont like, for whatever reason. Noones compelling them to respond. Better sometimes iof they dont.

Its not that hrd a solution were discussing here.