Time For A "welcome To Ahb" Forum.

[MeLoveBeer]

You assume that everyone hates helping out with the basic questions. That doesnt seem to be the case at all, theres plenty of understanding members who are fine with ansewering new brewer queries without feeling any tension. Pure and simply, the impatient members just need to skip the threads they dont like, for whatever reason. Noones compelling them to respond. Better sometimes iof they dont.

Its not that hrd a solution were discussing here.

Agreed, and I for one relish the opportunity to reinforce my own knowledge by helping newer brewers. What I'm talking about is empowering newer users to be able to source the information themselves if they desire. I think that the search engine is a fundamental flaw in the site and could be massively improved with very little effort.

 

[MaltyHops]

Agreed, and I for one relish the opportunity to reinforce my own knowledge by helping newer brewers. What I'm talking about is empowering newer users to be able to source the information themselves if they desire. I think that the search engine is a fundamental flaw in the site and could be massively improved with very little effort.

I have raised the idea of creating an index of previously asked newbie questions
- sensibly categorised into the major brewing stages - as per sample below.

In just a month there have been heaps of newbie questions asked that are
similar to ones already asked before but different enough to warrant asking
again and there have been a lot of really good answers. It seems a shame
to not make use of the good answers more readily. It is great that some
members are able to give great help to newbies but sooner or later this may
get a bit tiring.

Ideally, new users ought to know/learn how to make use of existing search
functions but they are likely to have urgent questions and may not know what
brewing terms/words to search for so take the easy way to post another
question.

The newbie questions index could be created as a set of editable articles (like
the Acronyms list article) that would grow over time. I think the index would
not be duplicating existing facilities - it would be an addition that might be of
help.

...
YEAST
...
FERMENTING

• Fermentation Complete?
  ... activity stopped with high SG
• Fermenting In Fridge, no fidgemate ??
  ... effects on yeast/taste - notable replies: (1)
• 10 Days In... Developing A Cidery Taste (twang)
  ... adding hops/stocking changed taste - notable replies: (1)

BOTTLING
...

 

[~MikE]

i think getting rid of post counts and the barrel heirachy BS would stop a lot of trolling and send people with no life over to farmville.

 

[DU99]

Barls..i am a senior mod on another site also..if staff dont perform there removed or asked to stepdown"OFF TOPIC"..
search engines can be fine,but it depends on how its been programed to work

 

[felten]

I have raised the idea of creating an index of previously asked newbie questions
- sensibly categorised into the major brewing stages - as per sample below.

something like this maybe? http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...hp?autocom=ineo


When I started out on this forum I lurked for a few months, just read all the articles, explored all the sites options and read all the threads in the kit & extract forum and beginners ag/partial forum. The learning curve going from knowing nothing about brewing, to even learning the basics is very steep and I would advise newcomers to do all the relevant research before starting out and asking questions that are probably stacked up 10 fold in the search database.

 

[zarth]

I have raised the idea of creating an index of previously asked newbie questions
- sensibly categorised into the major brewing stages - as per sample below.

In just a month there have been heaps of newbie questions asked that are
similar to ones already asked before but different enough to warrant asking
again and there have been a lot of really good answers. It seems a shame
to not make use of the good answers more readily. It is great that some
members are able to give great help to newbies but sooner or later this may
get a bit tiring.

Ideally, new users ought to know/learn how to make use of existing search
functions but they are likely to have urgent questions and may not know what
brewing terms/words to search for so take the easy way to post another
question.

The newbie questions index could be created as a set of editable articles (like
the Acronyms list article) that would grow over time. I think the index would
not be duplicating existing facilities - it would be an addition that might be of
help.

...
YEAST
...
FERMENTING

• Fermentation Complete?
  ... activity stopped with high SG
• Fermenting In Fridge, no fidgemate ??
  ... effects on yeast/taste - notable replies: (1)
• 10 Days In... Developing A Cidery Taste (twang)
  ... adding hops/stocking changed taste - notable replies: (1)

BOTTLING
...

This in my opinion would be really helpful, I lurked for ages reading and researching found heaps of great stuff but sometimes found it hard to track down a second time newbie FAQ along the lines of above sounds great. It took me a while to post anything cause I did'nt want to waste peoples time or look an ***** because its bound to be on the site somewhere.And now I just like to confirm my assumptions. Having said that 99% of replies to me have been most helpful and friendly..

 

[Lecterfan]

As an eager new poster who did the full rollercoaster on my first drunken night of posting (a mistake): feeling humbled, outraged and then ultimately really embarrassed all in the course of one thread - I think there are probably a few things to be considered from both sides of the coin.

I search a lot more effectively now than I did when I started, basically because as a lurker I used Google, but as a member it pays off to search individual forums rather than using the generic search function in the top right hand corner...sometimes this is suggested to people with a happy vibe, other times with great impatience (or - rarely - with aggressive exacerbation).

I also had a really respectful and encouraging PM from a senior member which heartened me because I was pulled up for absolutely giving incorrect info, which I then apologised for and admitted my ignorance (which was a mathematical mistake,not at all malicious or intended to bignote myself).

What all the experts and long time posters tend to forget is this:

A lot of us "newbs" don't post on other forums and aren't the most savy in interpreting the tone of internet commuinications. We are like impatient terrier pups barking just to hear the sound of our own voices. Often I post out of an eagerness to help or interact with other brewers who have been/are going through similar crises to me or my experience..sometimes (often?) I get it wrong, but that doesn't make me a villain or an *****, just someone trying to respond to a question in the same medium that it was posed.

My original philosophical post was meant to illustrate that for someone like me, all I care about is the best tasting beer I can make given my personal time, budget and level of dedication. The process, equipment etc is all super important, but at the end of the day some guys like to brew because of how involved they can become in the process (the brewing is an end in itself), other people are happy with a good honest beer that is better than megaswill (the brewing is a means).

So whether changes need to be made? Who knows?...as opponents to the OP have stated, maybe a baptism of fire (so to speak) is encouraging a spirit of independance (it certainly did with me to some degree), but is this the best way? Who knows?

All I know from now on is if I want to offer advice then keep it based on practical experience and not theory, and if I want to talk sh*t then I do it in "the pub" rather than in the hallowed halls of the AG black belts haha.

Anyway a good, controversial little topic nonetheless.

 

[fritz and sauce]

I'm a newbie here and don't mind doing my own searching for info. but have considered this the site the most difficult and frustrating to search. The basic search engine does nothing. Advanced search and choosing '' the common ground" was a major improvement.
Reading instructions is a task most people try to bypass and no matter what advice or opinion anybody has on this, it's just how it is. All search engines and more importantly instructions, must be compiled for the complete ********.
I posted for the first time yesterday and received helpful assistance which was appreciated. This is a great site with an average search engine. Instructions on how to use the search engine on a very large complex web site is understandable, but this site should be more newbie friendly. Many times I have thrown the hands in the air and gone somewhere else muttering expletives. I eventually come back and tackle the ******* of a search engine. I might even give the instructions a quick glance one day.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

i think getting rid of post counts and the barrel heirachy BS would stop a lot of trolling and send people with no life over to farmville.

Mike I think your right and gave me a good laugh... :super:

As for the forum, yes things can get a little heated but on the whole people are great and only too happy to help, that's my very brief experience anyway :beer:

 

[pk.sax]

Ive found using the google search provided to be quite helpful. It basically searches AHB for the query but using google's searh engine. The 'other' search is hopeless.

 

[Stuster]

Ive found using the google search provided to be quite helpful. It basically searches AHB for the query but using google's searh engine. The 'other' search is hopeless.

The search I find more useful in some ways than using a google search, but I know most agree with you and find it a pain to use.

You do need to use 'More search options' for it to be useful though. So which functions on there are useful?

1. You can choose the forum you want to look in which cuts it down to the kind of brewing you want to do and/or restricts it to Pub questions or cuts that out.

2. You can choose to only search the topic title. That way you can find topics which are on the terms you are looking for. So for example you are looking for information about golden ales. You'll find that the term golden has been used many, many times and so it's hard to find a useful thread. Using this means that you find threads specifically on golden ales.

3. You can choose to find information by a particular poster. Mainly useful if you want to follow a specific person's advice. It's also useful if you sort of remember a particular post by somebody and want to find that post (including your own posts, which it is possible to forget. :icon_drunk: ).

Anyway, that's how I've used it in the past. Tend not to look for info as much as I once did of course. I found the site a bit intimidating at first and spent a fair bit of time lurking and reading. There's a whole heap of good info in there. Posting for info and getting real live responses is fun as well. I think that giving too much info to new brewers might mean there's no need for people to ask questions which would be a bit of a shame. On the other hand, there are only so many times you can answer basic questions without losing the will to live.

 

[Daniel.lear]

Hmmm,

Initially I was agreeing with Pat on this one, However Jayse has a couple of very valid points. Personaly I am a fan of people learning for themselves, with a gentle push in the right direction at times. This could be achieved by something along the lines of what Pat said, but a forum within a forum may be to much, we already have the kit's and bit's, partials, and AG sections.

Perhaps a compulsory reading section before being able to post?? :huh:

I also second what Jayse said about post counts. It can be a useful tool to judge someones experience, but there a few that seem to have huge post counts that know F@#%-all. I don't really know what to do on this one.

Cheers,

Leary

 

[dcx3]

Im with Jayse, i lurked here for ages reading the stickys and alot of posts. I found out who the most helpful posters where etc.
Ive found the troll habitat in ahb to be minimal compared with other internet sites i also think it goes against the general spirit of HB

 

[Florian]

I think one reason why there are so may threads about the same question is simply because a lot of n00bs think they're the first ones to encounter the problem they're having. And I don't mean that in a bad way at all. When I started out in brewing I had absolutely no idea how many people were involved in it in Australia. I had started one new thread right at the beginning and then quickly realised that there are hundreds of people who had asked the same question before. The same applies to almost anything on the net, there is hardly a question that hasn't been asked somewhere before. From then on I searched as much as I could and tried to only start new threads whenever my situation was different to the ones I could find.

I have seen a great way to tackle this in another forum I used frequently in the past. In this forum, whenever you start a new threat and type in the title, it gives you matches with similar titles. You are then politely asked to check these threads first before posting your question. 9 out of 10 times you would find your answer in one of the suggested threads. So it is kind of an automatic search for people who don't search, they still get the search results presented without asking for them. This little tool would definitely keep the number of 'double threads' significantly down.

 

[BjornJ]

This is a great forum,
as so many others I have learned a lot here going from kits to partials to AG, experimenting with new hops, crash chilling, and all the other little things we keep adding to make a "simple" process more and more complex :lol: .


I've gotten lots of good feedback on things I didn't understand when reading about it, or more details around why something is done a particular way.

Some of it from other amateurs like myself and some from the "pros" like Butters, Stuster, MHB, ThirstyBoy and many others.
I have many times been genuinly impressed by the amount of time someone spend on here trying to help me understand something, going to lengths to find articles to link to, or explain in less technical terms some of the very technical issues involved in putting grains in hot water.



At the same time there seems to be a group of people on here that thinks

1. A beginner should not ask a question if it has been answered before.
2. It's sad to want to brew "megaswill".
3. It's ok to abuse anyone guilty of 1. or 2.

I'm not trying to start an argument if this is true or not, or if it is fair to agree with the above points.
Only stating what I have observed.


I believe the AHB forum could be a better place for new and experienced brewers alike if we could find a way to agree to:

Only post if you are trying to add something positive, as in advice or even just happy banter for that matter. Let's try to keep the sad, little flaming wars out of it..

Someone adding a comment "yes, I have the same problem" is not really helping the person asking a question resolve anything, but there is certainly nothing mean in doing so.

I can understand Stu saying there is only so many times you can answer the really basic questions and keep a will to live .
Working in IT I have first-hand experience with this concept, like everyone else who has talked a user through doing a really simple task over the phone for the 50th time, hehe.


But it would make things a lot less hostile if those not wanting to bother with these posts/questions simply moved on to another thread rather than tell someone off for 1. or 2. above.


This is turning into a PistolPatch-long post (another great helper of others), my apologies for those still with me! Those who are still reading probably also know that the reason forums use smilies or "emotiocons"
is to enable posters to make sure others realise something is said in a light-hearted way not meant to upset. There is no coincidence when grown men use "skittles" as I saw them called the other day, we are not trying to look like teenage posters but trying to make sure the tone carries over, something that can be hard in writing..


My 2c:

We definetly could have a section that said "read this before you post" and it would be a link to How to Brew by Palmer plus a list of other short articles like suggested by others on here.

But we would then remove the need for thousands (?) of posts from people asking things like

• why is my airlock not bubbling?
• How do I make it taste like Carlton Draught, VB, etc?
• Why is there crap at the bottom of my bottles?
• Who is that bearded guy at the ISB meetings filling everyone with braggot?

And unlike an online encyclopedia, we do not want to stop repeating the same piece of information, we want it to be asked again and again and again by scores of new brewers sliding down the same slippery slope we have gone before..
Why this and that... how do I improve... what happens if... but that doesn't rhyme with this thing I read that said... but the guy at the LHBS said...
because then there will be so many more of us to meet at case swaps, camping weekends at Lake Canjola, brew club meetups at the northern beaches (thanks guys for last Saturday), at Barls' playing with his dog, etc.

Let's embrace the "My airlock is not bubbling" crowd as new guys/girls just starting out with something that can turn into a great hobby with waaaay to much stuff to learn to ever get bored with.

And let's try to be nice to eachother in the process, even when someone doesn't agree :lol:
(I am sure you noticed the "clever" use of an emoticon there).



Hehehe, that turned out way too long but guess that's another advantage of a forum, eh?
I can type for as long as I want, and you can choose to reply or ignore it..


thanks
Bjorn

 

[rotten]

Didn't everyone using this forum have their FIRST POST!

What has post count or barrels got to do with anything. I always thought respect was earnt, not expected due to so-called expertise.

It is a forum to discuss home brew, not a forum to berrate others for what they may or may not know.

 

[Stuster]

• why is my airlock not bubbling?
• How do I make it taste like Carlton Draught, VB, etc?
• Why is there crap at the bottom of my bottles?
• Who is that bearded guy at the ISB meetings filling everyone with braggot?

:lol:

Love it.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

AHB is a great beer forum. I used to go to Homebrewtalk in the USA AND Jim's Brewing in the UK for specific info on their local brews and a touch of xenophobic **** stirring when pissed. But I rarely do now. I get better knowledge here and from other non forum sources. I enjoy AHB's close knit community, it's a better source of information and a bit of comic relief in my working hours. I for one support a Noobie forum if done properly. If something along the lines of Bjorn et al. threads could eventuate, all to the good. New members will drift in and move out as their knowledge increases and those of you who like to help noobies and offer advice (not necessarily the same) can do so.

The rest of us who use the forum for more specific and interesting purposes such as community drinking sessions, football tipping competitions, goat sacrifices and cling wrap can then concentrate our energies where we best feel our interests lie.

 

[barneyb]

Yeah there is a bit of an issue with some older posters who think they are god's gift to homebrewing on the internet.

I'm pretty sure these legends of the internet would only be happy if all the main brewing forums were locked so you could only post new recipes and organise doomed-to-fail bulk buys.

I recommended this site to 2 new brewers who had lots of new brewer questions. Both were shot down by these forum superstars with snarky comments because their questions had been answered sometime since this site's inception. The problem was that for these particular problems they didn't know the right brewing terms to search effectively. They quickly lost interest and now call me with their questions instead.

I was thinking of starting a "Questions not worth their own thread" thread so new brewers, or even more experienced brewers, could ask questions that may not warrant much discussion. Help my ferment is stuck at 1018, what hops for X type of beer etc. This way the holy ones wouldn't have to dirty their eyes with the questions the rest of us commoners may ask. The problem is there is no way to guarantee that new posters would post their questions in that thread, I notice often extract/kit questions are asked in the AG and Beginners AG forum a lot.

 

[pk.sax]

Ahahahaha gave me a good laff Bjorn.

Just remember, this forum is 'the internet'. And with anything Internet, advice is usual taken with a grain of salt. So, even when someone searches the forum for old questions, they are encountering information by people they have never heard about. In comparison, when you answer their problem in their own thread it does give them the satisfaction that someone read THEIR particular problem and responded. Even if all you did was link them to an earlier post/article. Its basic human tendency to do so, can't see how that is going to change. Same with the pedantic trolls, but then, you don't HAVE TO let trolls upset you and drive you off the rails. There is the concept of 'joking it away' and if all else fails, the forum has an ignore function (I noticed). Put the offender on your ignore list and they would disappear from YOUR AHB experience.

Now, as a very nice forum poster who helped me says in his siggy, toddle off and check your airlock will you

PS: Some trolls can be helpful too. Bumping your thread etc... They even eventually give advice after having their fill of trolling.