The "no Chiller" Method
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Weizguy
Barley Bomber
Brent,Borret said:MAH said:
-1 chiller + 1 cube = same number of pieces of equipment.
Brent
[post="115523"][/post]
Maybe the number of pieces of equipment is the same, but he no longer needs to sanitise the cube. Just rinse the cube out, and allow the hot wort to sanitise it!
QED
Seth out
Borret
Crazy Eye's Brewery
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Thankyou to all my personal mentors, but if you refer to the statement I replied to it is talking about ray who has said he uses 20L drums not fermentors like yourself... no matter what you do to clean it..
As for not sanitising a drum... would you ever prepare a yeast starter the same way and also not sanitise the container. I wouldn't trust it on the starter scale or on the full batch.
So howl me down again if you please but I stand by my statement
Brent
As for not sanitising a drum... would you ever prepare a yeast starter the same way and also not sanitise the container. I wouldn't trust it on the starter scale or on the full batch.
So howl me down again if you please but I stand by my statement
Brent
Borret said:
Yep.
I don't specifically sanitise the starter container by adding iodine or whatever. I simply add water and goo to my Schott bottle. I then place this in a sucepan full of boiling water for 15 or so minutes to make sure the starter wort is pasturised. The heat and steam from the pasturisation is enough to sanitise the container.
You can do a similar thing well in advance by bottling your starter wort in a progessively larger bottle, maybe a stubby for the first step and then an old 2 litre flagon for the second step. Pop the cap on the stubby and pour in your yeast for the first step. A few days latter, pop the top on the flagon and pour all of the stubby into the flagon.
I suspect that the idea of running the hot wort into a cube follows similar principles. The 60min to 90min boil pasturises the wort. When transfered to the cube the heat and steam sanitises the inside.
On a commercial scale you can imagine why they wouldn't want to sanitise each cube before they're filled with wort. But like I said before, commercial practices don't always translate well to homebrewers and it takes very little effort for you to sanitise the 1 or 2 cubes you would use.
Cheers
MAH
Borret
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MAH said:
Sorry that is not the same.... that equates to leaving a full batch in the boiler and fermenting it there. The starter vessel has been at near 100deg for 15 min also.
I said ... 'would you prepare a starter the same way " and evidently you don't and I don't reckon anyone would.
Ray_Mills
The Old Man of Brew
Hi
A couple of things that might help
Some pubs might have these cubs as they are now used for spirits.
As for cleaning them when used I just wash them out with hot water and shake them, put in half a teaspoon of sodium med put on the lid and leave them till next time. This will stop any growth of what want to live in it.
When you want to use it next rince it and sanitise the same way you would with your fermenter.
Cheers
Ray
A couple of things that might help
Some pubs might have these cubs as they are now used for spirits.
As for cleaning them when used I just wash them out with hot water and shake them, put in half a teaspoon of sodium med put on the lid and leave them till next time. This will stop any growth of what want to live in it.
When you want to use it next rince it and sanitise the same way you would with your fermenter.
Cheers
Ray
What an interesting topic!
Have not looked at the board for a week or so and there are 7 pages on not cooling your wort prior to pitching. To do this is the best way to ensure that SOME of your brews will be badly infected. Slow cooling of beer is certainly asssociated with the production of dimethyl sulphide (DMS) as mentioned in earlier posts. Another cause of DMS is boiling with the lid on. DMS IMHO is ok in an American pale ale (heaps of hops to overcome it) but in a lager is disgusting.
You must bear in mind some people cannot taste DMS or diacetyl (about 20% can taste it). There are many different styles of beer and some levels of particular compounds are acceptable in them. To think that not cooling your wort will work for all styles is acceptable is just plain silly.
The time it takes wort to cool from hot (45 degree C) to ferment temp is considerable and is the most likely time you will pick up infection.
You must bear in mind that some people make 52 beers a year and only enter the best ones. This alone could skew their successes!
The cans that ESB use to make their wort kits are BRAND NEW and there has never been any fermenation products in them. It would be interesting to see their success if they re-used those cans? They probably have a clean room for packaging too.
Simple message, ALL beer should be cooled rapidly and fermented as soon as possible.
cheers
Darren
Have not looked at the board for a week or so and there are 7 pages on not cooling your wort prior to pitching. To do this is the best way to ensure that SOME of your brews will be badly infected. Slow cooling of beer is certainly asssociated with the production of dimethyl sulphide (DMS) as mentioned in earlier posts. Another cause of DMS is boiling with the lid on. DMS IMHO is ok in an American pale ale (heaps of hops to overcome it) but in a lager is disgusting.
You must bear in mind some people cannot taste DMS or diacetyl (about 20% can taste it). There are many different styles of beer and some levels of particular compounds are acceptable in them. To think that not cooling your wort will work for all styles is acceptable is just plain silly.
The time it takes wort to cool from hot (45 degree C) to ferment temp is considerable and is the most likely time you will pick up infection.
You must bear in mind that some people make 52 beers a year and only enter the best ones. This alone could skew their successes!
The cans that ESB use to make their wort kits are BRAND NEW and there has never been any fermenation products in them. It would be interesting to see their success if they re-used those cans? They probably have a clean room for packaging too.
Simple message, ALL beer should be cooled rapidly and fermented as soon as possible.
cheers
Darren
darrenDarren said:
The casks that ESB use are recycled, many times over. They are filled hot right next to the kettle at the brewery.
On an average week I sell 40-45 Fresh Wort kits, & I am yet to see an infected one turn up. If you do as ray said , give it a hot rinse & a sterilant then it is easy to do many times over. If it works you can't really knock it.
Cheers
Gerard
Ray_Mills
The Old Man of Brew
Darren
Brew a lager your normal way, give it a rest for 15 min after the boil, rack it to a 20l cube, make sure the cap is srewed on tight. Leave it overnite where ever you want and let it cool.
Ferment it 2 weeks later when you and your yeast is ready.
Ferment the beer the normal way you have always done.
Rack it into a secondary and lager it as normal. (this is where you have to be very clean)
Bottle or keg your beer
If you have DMS let me know as i have done this 20 times now with no DMS in my beers
Cheers
Ray
Brew a lager your normal way, give it a rest for 15 min after the boil, rack it to a 20l cube, make sure the cap is srewed on tight. Leave it overnite where ever you want and let it cool.
Ferment it 2 weeks later when you and your yeast is ready.
Ferment the beer the normal way you have always done.
Rack it into a secondary and lager it as normal. (this is where you have to be very clean)
Bottle or keg your beer
If you have DMS let me know as i have done this 20 times now with no DMS in my beers
Cheers
Ray
Ray_Mills
The Old Man of Brew
Duff
I am but my mate Scotty loves DMS in lagers and goes out of his way with great effort to get DMS in his beer.
Guess he is really in the 20% and loving it
Cheers
Ray
I am but my mate Scotty loves DMS in lagers and goes out of his way with great effort to get DMS in his beer.
Guess he is really in the 20% and loving it
Cheers
Ray
I'm curious about the DMS thing, because everything that I've read says that you WILL get DMS doing this.
I'm going to think out loud here and get to the point sometime ... please take this with a grain of salt I'm an expert in nothing.
Commercial breweries can over oxygenate their worts because with the large volumes they brew in, pressure can build up at the bottom of their vessel (with the weight of all the liquid on top) and the oxygen will oversaturate the wort. On a homebrew scale this is very hard to do, as the oxygen at the bottom of the vessel only has to fight the liquid weight of 20 Litres, so it will easily leave the liquid as long as there's not too much head pressure.
I wonder if the DMS thing works on a similar basis. Is it possible that on a homebrew scale it is easier for the DMS to leave the liquid due to reduced volumes / pressures. So an extended cooling period produces less DMS for a homebrewer than it would for a commercial brewer?
Or does the fact that people are slow cooling in a sealed environment mean that if DMS was there, it would stay there.
Could someone with a good understanding of the DMS life cycle comment?
I'm going to think out loud here and get to the point sometime ... please take this with a grain of salt I'm an expert in nothing.
Commercial breweries can over oxygenate their worts because with the large volumes they brew in, pressure can build up at the bottom of their vessel (with the weight of all the liquid on top) and the oxygen will oversaturate the wort. On a homebrew scale this is very hard to do, as the oxygen at the bottom of the vessel only has to fight the liquid weight of 20 Litres, so it will easily leave the liquid as long as there's not too much head pressure.
I wonder if the DMS thing works on a similar basis. Is it possible that on a homebrew scale it is easier for the DMS to leave the liquid due to reduced volumes / pressures. So an extended cooling period produces less DMS for a homebrewer than it would for a commercial brewer?
Or does the fact that people are slow cooling in a sealed environment mean that if DMS was there, it would stay there.
Could someone with a good understanding of the DMS life cycle comment?
homebrewworld.com
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If it works you can't really knock it.
Cheers
Gerard
Yep, i am with ya there Gerard.
HBW
Cheers
Gerard
Yep, i am with ya there Gerard.
HBW
