The "no Chiller" Method

[Joel]

This is a very interesting topic that's come up. My current method is to use the IM chiller for about 30min by which time the wort has fallen to about 40C (give or take a couple of degrees depending on the weather). I use a slow flow rate so as to not waste water, even after collecting the washing up water. I then chuck the cooled wort in the fridge for anywhere from 6 hours to overnight.

I guess I'm using a hybrid method, part IM (but not down to pitching temps) and part no-chiller method. So far it's worked well for me. But I've got to be honest and say that the only reason I've got a chiller at all is because I thought I had to have one.

I reckon I'll give the no-chiller method a go. I don't mind the idea of 'hot-packing' the wort (self sanitising) so long as I'm careful about splashing and initial cleaning of the cube (HSA from splashing is another issue. Is HSA really real?). And the transfer of the cooled wort from the cube to fermenter provides the perfect opportunity for airation. The major thing I've gleaned from this thread is the use of a part of the wort to make/stepup the starter like MAH suggested... why didn't I think of that before now?

Something new to think about anyway.

 

[Pumpy]

The major thing I've gleaned from this thread is the use of a part of the wort to make/stepup the starter like MAH suggested... why didn't I think of that before now?

Something new to think about anyway.

[post="114827"][/post]​

Sometimes there are so many good ideas on this site ,Joel that they dont all register ,

I have recently used ideas posted a year ago and think I should have been a bit quicker on the uptake :huh:

pumpy

 

[user 384]

I would be interested in Ray's input in regards to the impact on hops. I'm thinking of beers like pilsners, APAs, bitters etc, that should have a noticeable fresh hop flavour/aroma. I wonder how long you can delay the start of fermentation before there is an impact on the hop flavour/aroma, if at all.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Steve Lacey]

I still want to know why the DMS/diacetyl or whatever is not an issue.

But anyway, if it is not an issue, why not go one step further. Do the boil with hops in a hop bag a la Ross's curtain method. Flame out, wait a few minutes and fish out the hop bag, pop on a lid. Leave til next day, pitch yeast directly into boiler. Ferment three days to a week, rack to secondary, or even to corny to finish off fermentation. You would need ambient temperatures in your favour though. (It is still early spring here, so this idea appeals to me).

 

[johnno]

Can I just be extra lazy and transfer it to a airtight fermenter, let it cool overnight then pitch the yeast?

johnno

 

[Bobby]

dms shouldnt be an issue as it should have been boiled off already. if it isnt an issue with the use of an IC then it wont be an issue with the no chiller method. the only difference is the time to cool the wort.

 

[Pumpy]

Can I just be extra lazy and transfer it to a airtight fermenter, let it cool overnight then pitch the yeast?

johnno

[post="114842"][/post]​

Yes you can ,I done it after the Braidwood project but the ambient temperature was not cool enought to reduce to yeast pitching temperature I had to put it into the fridge to reduce the last 10 C to bring it to 15C

pumpy

 

[Jye]

Can I just be extra lazy and transfer it to a airtight fermenter, let it cool overnight then pitch the yeast?

That would be ok as long as you pitch enough yeast. It would be safer to do some form of aeration.

dms shouldnt be an issue as it should have been boiled off already

Steve, this is the reason you dont boil with a lid on and diacetyl is an off flavour produced by yeast not wort.

 

[warrenlw63]

Duff,this is just a thought if you use your stainless steel kegs when the wort cools will it suck in the sides of the keg ??

pumpy

[post="114823"][/post]​

That's urban myth Pumpy (I've heard other brewers espousing the same thing). I've filled kegs with boiled water and emptied with CO2 to drive out O2 for long term storage.

They're S/S would take some mighty suction to implode them. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Uncle Fester]

If you were really keen to place a layer of C02 over the wort, then Bunnings sell a 20 litre Jerry for (about $12 from memory) that has 2 spouts and caps. A schraeder valve in each, and you can fill one from a tyre valve, and purge through the other ????

 

[Guest Lurker]

...besides which, kegs seal under pressure, not under vaccuum...

 

[warrenlw63]

They're S/S would take some mighty suction to implode them. :lol:

Warren -

[post="114847"][/post]​

 

[Ross]

effectively if ESB can do it whay cant we thats what it boils down to excuse the pun .

Pumpy

[post="114816"][/post]​

Do ESB pack their fresh wort kits with hot wort without chilling??

I would have thought not, but maybe they do...

cheers Ross...

 

[AndrewQLD]

effectively if ESB can do it whay cant we thats what it boils down to excuse the pun .

Pumpy

[post="114816"][/post]​

Do ESB pack their fresh wort kits with hot wort without chilling??

I would have thought not, but maybe they do...

cheers Ross...

[post="114877"][/post]​

I am a bit dubious myself to Ross. The one ESB fresh wort kit I used had no break material in the bottom. perhaps they are cooled and filtered and then raised to Pasteurisation temps for packaging???

Edit: although I do beleive they are packed hot because the container was slightly collapsed.
Cheers
Andrew

 

[warrenlw63]

I am a bit dubious myself to Ross. The one ESB fresh wort kit I used had no break material in the bottom. perhaps they are cooled and filtered and then raised to Pasteurisation temps for packaging???

[post="114878"][/post]​

Maybe they centrifuge the hot wort? Not 100% certain however this is meant to remove the break, hops & trub from the hot wort? :unsure:

Warren -

 

[PistolPatch]

What an interesting thread even for someone who has not done an AG. (My next brew is going to be an AG - cheers, Ross.) Thanks MAH.

Jazza's post (#4) really struck me as I was thinking, if I were not in a 1 bedroom apartment, I would buy a 44 gallon plastic drum, (these are really cheap!), fill it with no rinse sanitiser (betadine - cost minimal, thanks Pint), throw fermenters and everything in there, and use the same water to cool my brew using an immersion chiller. If I've cleaned everything properly, I could re-use the same water the next week, just adding a little more iodine.

I'm not a full-on greenie but I did say to Ross on Monday that I don't think I could just let 100 litres go down the sink in my apartment.

I'm actuallly thinking of doing a variation of the above as then I could store my equipment elsewhere in the '44' during the week.

If what I'm thinking is way off track then let me know via PM and I'll delete this post asap.

Really interesting reading though. Thanks all.

 

[Tony]

Well.....

I have done some serious thinking about this topic.

I personly dont believe in HSA. I dont splach my wort around to try out my beliefs though so this is not a concern for me.

I cant see any problems with running 80+ dec c wort into a vessel and storing it for a bit. The grumpys no.1's and Braidwood fresh wort kits i tried years ago were not infected. or oxidised and some of them sat there for months.

I do know that sometimes i have a spare day to brew but have no room to put a fresh wort so i have to leave it a couple of weeks and end up with room for a week and no beer brewing.

With this method, i could do a 50 liter batch, run it into 2 x 25 liter tubs (bought them today ) and rack it off the break into the firmenter when i want to.

I am really liking this idea.

Thanks Ray.

Ahhhhh you learn something every day on here.

cheers.

 

[Ray_Mills]

Hi all
Well I have started someting here.
I first came across the wort transfer to a 20L plastic drum at last years IBU's Big Ray's Big Brew day in May at my place
Tim Thomas the brewer from Five islands Brewery brings over his great "Tower of Power" and brews on the day with me as well as JW and Scotty with their equipment.
With all these brewers at my place at the same time I was worried about how do we cool all these boiled worts at about the same time.
Tim had the answer and came with 4 drums from the brewery, they were 20l drums now used for spirits. So we all decided to use these instead of chilling worts with a huge amount of water with the current water restrictions.
JW forgot to take his wort home and he left it at my place. After 5 months and he never collected it I decided to ferment it.
This beer was a Rye IPA with a heap of hops. so i did not have any idea if it will be ok.
Found a good yeast and fermented it. Kegged it and had some brewers over to try it. This beer was wonderfull and poor JW never had a drop.
While all this was going on I was having an infection problem that took me 2 months to find where it was coming from.
1. Yeast
2. Fermenter
3. Racking to Secondary
4. Secondary Fermentation

I finally traced it down to wort cooling and racking.
From that day onwards I rack to my drum and have never had a problem

I have never noticed any changes to yeast, hops and malt flavours.
It reduces my brew day time
As detailed before it has a huge amount of advantages and makes sence in the long run.
Cheer
Ray

 

[Joel]

So, The DMS is driven off during the boil (assuming you don't cover your kettle during the boil). So you don't have to worry about that.

If your careful about transferring the hot wort then you don't have to worry about HSA. (That's if you believe in it... if you don't then you can happily spash your hot wort around and call it airation I don't believe in HSA, but I don't splash hot wort around either... just in case... :unsure: )

The hot wort will kind of self sanitise the cube and keep it under a bit of a vacuum seal (maybe with CO2 if you've got it).

Then you can leave it to cool/store it for almost as long as you like before airating it, transferring to fermenter and pitching the yeast.

Sounds like this new no-chiller method has alot to recommend it. I think that quite a few people will be trying it in the near future. I hope everyone posts the results. I'd love to read about everyone's experiences. I reckon I'll give it a bash in my next AG brew... which is sadly going to be a few months away.

Woohoo! 100th post!

 

[sah]

Ray,

Do you deliberately brew to have a total wort volume a multiple of 15L or are you happy to leave larger headspace in one of the drums?

Do you cover it with CO2?

regards
Scott