Supporting Independent Breweries

[pk.sax]

In general, there are tons of people that can follow a great thing but would never in a million years take a step forward on their own. There would always be big breweries able to turn great beers into crowd pleasers at min cost, they aren't usually the ones innovating. The little guy might turn out a batch of gushers every now and then but he also brings out variety and some rippers. If you don't support them with a bigger heart they will eventually go under. Don't support the ones that absolutely deserve to go under. Some, however, have very tasty brews among some crap piss they offer to the masses. Occasionally, the beer even travels well. I barely buy pale beers from the shop. Buy smart and quit blaming the brewery.

 

[Mike L'Itorus]

Nick

 

[Nick JD]

What we really need to see is tax laws letting Aussie Micros emulate the American Micro model.

Until that day, all Aussie Micros will be selling expensive beers that aren't as good as the beers they replicate because they are forced to cut costs - and to sell their beers at an unrealistic price with respect to the foreign competition.

I refuse to support this model - and in doing so, am supporting the production of average beer.

Instead of "buying a stubbie" and perpetuating a struggling industry, write a letter to those who have made it so damn hard for Micros to make a profit on their product.

 

[Nick JD]

[quote name='Mike L'Itorus' post='964596' date='Oct 21 2012, 05:05 PM']Nick

[/quote]

I love it!

 

[Nick JD]

Here's an example.

An Aussie Micro decides to make a Bohemian Pilsner. Now, 40 IBUs with only Czech Saaz? Ooooh, costly. Moravian Barley, floor malted? Ooooh - nah.

Triple decoction? Hell no! Where TF are we gonna do that! Store it in Oak! Get out of here! Lager it for 4 months? What are we - made of money?

Let's use BB Pale and PoR and chuck in a little bit of Saaz at the end and lager it for a week and a half. Sweet - the morons will never know the difference! Sure they won't ... but the homebrewers will.

And Pilsner Urquell is $15.79 a six pack at Dans. The Aussie Micro will be $20 for a 4 pack.

**** that.

 

[MHB]

Snip
Again - it's bad form to attack the person when you disagree with their post. Attack the post.

Considering some of your posts thats risible
Apart from that, this is basically why I disagree with you.
1/ How can you tell is an Aussie craft brewery is making good beer unless you buy it from time to time, which is rather the point of the thread.
2/ who wants a copy of another beer? Urquell do a wonderful job of making Urquell, I am far more interested in someone making a pilsner but taking a new look at it, good pilsner doesnt have to be a clone of something you like to be good beer.
3/ malt and hops dont even make the top 5 in the cost of making beer Excise, Labour, Energy, plant capitalisation, packaging and often even waste disposal are far more important costs, and small businesses are going to be far more heavily impacted by them than are larger operations
4/ following from your statements, all of Australias micro breweries should shut down immediately because they will never be able to either make exact copies of your favourite beer or make a fair imitation at a discount price.

Personally I suspect that you miss the whole point of the craft beer movement, which is to my mind to explore new and interesting styles, to craft unique beers using (in many cases) Australian ingredients to make uniquely Australian beer. I and probably everyone here (well-1) would I think want to encourage the development of the craft industry, we all know that some of the efforts arent world class, nor were I suspect the early efforts coming out of the American craft scene, but if no one drank their beer it wouldnt be where it is today.
All over the world there are small independent brewers struggling to make a living, some will and some wont that is the nature of business, they are also turning out some of the finest beer it has been my pleasure to drink.
I have the good fortune to know a Belgian beer importer; we have been getting to try some of the beer coming from the Belgian craft brewers, unlike anything coming from anywhere else including the much vaunted American micros, the same can be said of the better Australian efforts it is truly unique.
If we want the craft brewing movement to continue and to improve we need to support it.
Mark

 

[Mardoo]

The point Manticle raises is that if you control beer distribution you control the range of beers on the market. In the States distribution and retail have always been separate, and the lock that the majors have on the market here is the control of distribution, whether that's your Lion-sponsored local or your Woolies/Coles warts. Coming from Portland, Oregon 15 years ago I was utterly shocked that beer brands owned pubs and thus controlled what I could drink there.

If you support your local independent craft beer store you'll help keep the choices on the market, whatever you buy. If you don't have the choice of a local CBS then Manticle's suggestion is your best option. No retailer will keep selling what doesn't sell.

Having watched the rise of the craft beer industry in the States I can assure Nick there'll be alot more of the half-assed expensive Aussie micros (some of which have been named in this thread in my opinion) who will eventually go out of business, a whole lot more, before quality craft brewers have a chance to stabilise their businesses and forge ahead. But if we don't patronise the independent distribution channels we won't have the chance of a Carlton Draft in a uni fridge of developing a truly independent brewing scene.

 

[///]

I'm all about supporting local and the small guys. And variety is the spice of life, and so some overseas beer is also not a bad thing. And, large companies are not bad; I worked for one and it was great. I now work for a small brewer, and it is the best.

But, one side to consider is that not all brewers are great sales people. Case in point, an opportunity for a small Sydney brewer in Saturdays SMH to sing the praises of his beer. All he did was talk about other breweries rather than himself and his beer ... wasted several column centimeters doing this ...

The rhetoric about big bad companies having nasty sales tactics and being predatory is immature at best. Good sales methods can be employed in any sized company, and is the only way big companies, which were one day small companies, grew to their current size by having sales strategy that worked. If these big guys can throw their weight around and exert pressure, it is often because of the strength of their relationships with customers. Basic Sales 101 there.

Sell beer to make it, not make beer to sell it. Do it any other way and your doomed.

 

[Mardoo]

Oh no, it's not that large companies are bad (except when they try to eliminate competition and homogenise the market ). Industrialised brewers and their distribution networks are simply established far, far beyond the degree to which craft brewers and their networks are. If we want a different option we need to support that.

I work in the retail end of liquor distribution, and although rhetoric about good sales methods is good in idealised theories, on the coal face of liquor sales if you tell them it's good the customer will buy it, at least 70% of the time. I see this every day of my working life, and experiment with it. Know why touts work in front of restaurants? Because people are afraid to say no. Often times the lynchpin of the strength of the relationship with the customer hinges on the customer's ignorance or fear of seeming ignorant.

By supporting independent distribution we get a different story out there, and a chance to make suggestions that educate about craft beer.

It ain't about who's big and who's small, it's about who's supporting the right to choose.

 

[///]

Often times the lynchpin of the strength of the relationship with the customer hinges on the customer's ignorance or fear of seeming ignorant.

So as we make all our purchasing decisions through a day, week or year, we are fearful of being found out as ignorant. Lets ignore the years of research on this and take stock.

So retail is the only market via little brown or green bottles? Theres no other place, product, position or price considerations on how we sell a product?

 

[petesbrew]

I needed a cold 6 pack yesterday for a byo party - small bottlo down the road has a small, but reasonably good, selection. What did I go for? The Budvar on special for $15.
Tasted great. Then I saw the Best Before date... June.
I drank it anyway. I'm so ashamed of myself. I should know by now to check the date.

Good thread, Manticle. I always love making an excuse to head down to Dans, 1st Choice, eg SWMBO is always running low on wine!
The local independent boys do need to be tried too. If you don't enjoy it, fair enough, but I always think it's important to try it in the first place.

 

[Nick JD]

Considering some of your posts that’s risible
Apart from that, this is basically why I disagree with you.
1/ How can you tell is an Aussie craft brewery is making good beer unless you buy it from time to time, which is rather the point of the thread.

I've bought most available. Already said I have an 8:1 ratio for going back to buy more.

2/ who wants a “copy” of another beer?

Me. But if you read my last post you'll see that "copy" was not my point. Bad immitation, was. They're all doing it - sometimes I wish they'd just make "Aussie Ale".

3/ malt and hops don’t even make the top 5 in the cost of making beer Excise, Labour, Energy, plant capitalisation, packaging and often even waste disposal are far more important costs, and small businesses are going to be far more heavily impacted by them than are larger operations

So then they can start using quality ingredients then, if they have no impact on the product's overall cost.

4/ following from your statements, all of Australia’s micro breweries should shut down immediately because they will never be able to either make exact copies of your favourite beer or make a fair imitation at a discount price.

Again - for the millionth time - I don't agree with subsidising bad business models. That's all. If it can't compete on the merits of its product .. it's toast. I really can't say this any simpler.

The real issue with beer in Australia is a political one. Focus your energies on that instead of flogging a dead horse - then we can all have huge variety in the pub and bottle store. Australia's apathy and eventual love (and indeed the world's) for the rise of the Duopoly is not going to fall with a bunch of yobbos with five buck notes at Dan Murphys. Brewing oligarchies can't be bought out by a few thousand homebrewers; those homebrewers would be much better off petitioning for a Micro Tax.

But that would make far too much sense for this forum.

 

[pk.sax]

I think you are missing the point pretty much like most statistical/risk management studies do.

It's the human factor that matters. When poster above says people are too afraid to be found out to be ignorant, ask yourself, that is because someone works actively at creating an image out there that makes them so. It's only fair to push back. A little by little. People see you buying beer. The checkout people remember seeing you walk out with beer. They discuss, comment and re-recommend stuff to people. Things don't just happen, it takes effort.

All Manticle said was that if we'd consciously pick up one or two each time we go for a box of whatever. A lot of people can't, that's partly why they brew. A lot others indulge ourselves with a few every now and then. If we could put just a little more to independent Aussie micro beer it adds up. It might sound 'feel good' but that is pretty much how it starts.
If nothing else, paying that extra dollar is great feedback to the brewer, maybe they should cut back on the less popular ones and make more of their better beers. If you just pick the import over the local just for price then you are so obviously the wrong audience for this.

 

[Nick JD]

I think you are missing the point pretty much like most statistical/risk management studies do.

It's the human factor that matters. When poster above says people are too afraid to be found out to be ignorant, ask yourself, that is because someone works actively at creating an image out there that makes them so. It's only fair to push back. A little by little. People see you buying beer. The checkout people remember seeing you walk out with beer. They discuss, comment and re-recommend stuff to people. Things don't just happen, it takes effort.

All Manticle said was that if we'd consciously pick up one or two each time we go for a box of whatever. A lot of people can't, that's partly why they brew. A lot others indulge ourselves with a few every now and then. If we could put just a little more to independent Aussie micro beer it adds up. It might sound 'feel good' but that is pretty much how it starts.
If nothing else, paying that extra dollar is great feedback to the brewer, maybe they should cut back on the less popular ones and make more of their better beers. If you just pick the import over the local just for price then you are so obviously the wrong audience for this.

Missing my point.

Here is my point: I would LOVE to see Aussie Micros DOMINATING the market with beer that was as good as anything from the countries the style they are brewing originated.

But supporting Micros for their industry, not their product is dumb.

 

[Guysmiley54]

The real issue with beer in Australia is a political one. Focus your energies on that instead of flogging a dead horse - then we can all have huge variety in the pub and bottle store. Australia's apathy and eventual love (and indeed the world's) for the rise of the Duopoly is not going to fall with a bunch of yobbos with five buck notes at Dan Murphys. Brewing oligarchies can't be bought out by a few thousand homebrewers; those homebrewers would be much better off petitioning for a Micro Tax.

But that would make far too much sense for this forum.

OT...

This deserves its own forum. Tax excise laws are appalling for beer brewers. Winemakers get up to $500,000 refund on excise at the end of the tax year why can't beer even get half of that? I would support any push to lobby and gather support for new tax laws.

 

[dammag]

Missing my point.

Here is my point: I would LOVE to see Aussie Micros DOMINATING the market with beer that was as good as anything from the countries the style they are brewing originated.

But supporting Micros for their industry, not their product is dumb.

Maybe supporting the industry isn't dumb. What has to come first? The chicken or the egg?

 

[bignath]

Here is my point: I would LOVE to see Aussie Micros DOMINATING the market with beer that was as good as anything from the countries the style they are brewing originated.

Nick, why do you keep coming back with a comparison from aussie micro vs style origin. It's been mentioned a lot already that that's not the point.
This thread feels like your reading way too much into it mate.

slightly ot,
when i go into Dan's (i have limited options for beer retail in this hick town) i often grab a bottle of something i've never tried before. More times than not, it's an aussie product.
Sure i look at what style it's roughly aimed at, but at the end of the day, if it doesn't quite tick all of the boxes for it's "intended" style/audience, i'll still gladly buy it repeatedly if on the most basic level "i liked it".

 

[Nick JD]

Nick, why do you keep coming back with a comparison from aussie micro vs style origin.

If they write HEFEWEIZEN on the label and $3.50, then I expect it should be damn close to the ones that say YEASTWHEAT in german on them for $3.50.

Is there a rule that says you can make bland Hefeweizens and expect an instant market if you're making them in Australia?

If you write KOLSCH on it ... actually google it, you're not even legally allowed to do that.

Holy crap I had one last week that had PALE ALE and hinted it was "American" on the label. WTF? Not ... even ... close.

 

[bignath]

If they write HEFEWEIZEN on the label and $3.50, then I expect it should be damn close to the ones that say YEASTWHEAT in german on them for $3.50.

Is there a rule that says you can make bland Hefeweizens and expect an instant market if you're making them in Australia?

If you write KOLSCH on it ... actually google it, you're not even legally allowed to do that.

yeah that's all fine, but if you were to buy the oz wheaty, you've at least given it a chance. Even if it was ****, atleast it sends a message to aussie micros that we're prepared to try their offerings instead of just turning our nose up at it.

If it was crap, go right ahead and tell them. They aren't likely to try and improve anything if no one ever tells them it sucks balls.

 

[Nick JD]

If it was crap, go right ahead and tell them. They aren't likely to try and improve anything if no one ever tells them it sucks balls.

That's just it. It didn't suck balls.

It was the same price as the one with like, a date on it, like 1756 or something. That tastes like Scarlett Johanssen's nipples.

But it was kinda, meh. And I wish I bought the German one. With the nipples and the WHOOOOT! Banana and Cloves and BUBBLEGUMS!

But I supported local and went, wooo .... t.

I guess all my rantings in this thread are summerisable in a simple statement: I'm over popping the cap off a Aussie Micro and expecting, "wow".