Smack Pak Swellings

[Fatgodzilla]

using Wyeast Liquid Yeast Smack Paks for the first time. How much should / can the pack swell ?

saying this cos the first two times the packs didn't swell a great deal after several hours - American Ale II and a California Lager - yet the brews fermented quickly. The instructions did say that the contents could be put into the fermenter without waiting too long, so after the several hour break and after some noticible but not overly significant swelling , in they went.

BUT .. a Kolsch yeast swelled a little over 6 hours - felt I couldn't wait any longer and pitched it. 24 hours later, nothing. No fermemtation process, no sign of the yeast. Temperatures okay, so worried that the yeast hasn't worked.

Supplementary questions

What should these yeasts smell like. I didn't notice anything wrong about the American II, but the Californian Lager stank a bit. Found out after I'd pitched it, but the wort fermented okay and I haven't noticed anything off in the bottle, so assume this yeast normally smells funny. The Kolsch yeast smelt similiarly yucky too. Is this normal ??

Have a few more paks to go - so again, how big should they swell too and how long can I leave tthem swelled in the pak before using them.?

 

[Screwtop]

using Wyeast Liquid Yeast Smack Paks for the first time. How much should / can the pack swell ?

saying this cos the first two times the packs didn't swell a great deal after several hours - American Ale II and a California Lager - yet the brews fermented quickly. The instructions did say that the contents could be put into the fermenter without waiting too long, so after the several hour break and after some noticible but not overly significant swelling , in they went.

BUT .. a Kolsch yeast swelled a little over 6 hours - felt I couldn't wait any longer and pitched it. 24 hours later, nothing. No fermemtation process, no sign of the yeast. Temperatures okay, so worried that the yeast hasn't worked.

Supplementary questions

What should these yeasts smell like. I didn't notice anything wrong about the American II, but the Californian Lager stank a bit. Found out after I'd pitched it, but the wort fermented okay and I haven't noticed anything off in the bottle, so assume this yeast normally smells funny. The Kolsch yeast smelt similiarly yucky too. Is this normal ??

Have a few more paks to go - so again, how big should they swell too and how long can I leave tthem swelled in the pak before using them.?

FG go to Jamil Zainasheff's MrMalty.com website and use the Liquid Yeast Pitching Rate Calculator Link, enter the manufacture date and volume you are pitching to, you will learn a lot about these yeasts. Mostly I make 23L batches, the smack pack does not contain enough yeast for this volume even when fresh, so a starter is required. Grain and Grape advocate always making a starter and as for the time to swell they suggest a half a day wait for each month since manufacture. Something I have learned after seven batches of Klsch this year, the 2565 yeast needs a high pitching rate, so a big starter is required even with fresh yeast.

Screwy

 

[Linz]

General rule of thumb is 1 day for every month after packing....so if its 4 months after the pack date it will take about 4 days for it to swell properly..it works for me.

Ive had some swell to the point of it looking like it was going to explode!!(ale)

Popping the pack inside is a PITA

Lager yeasts give off a sulphur smell or "off" smell

 

[Linz]

bugger beaten to it by the quick fingered QLD'er

 

[ayellayen]

I brewed one with a Weihenstephaner strain (3068) the other week and the advice from the guy at the store was at least 24 hours if not 36. I cracked it before going to work one day and left it on the counter and on arriving home it was swollen enough, left it for another day and pitched the following afternoon. She worked apples and the beer has turned out rather pleasant.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

I brewed one with a Weihenstephaner strain (3068) the other week and the advice from the guy at the store was at least 24 hours if not 36. I cracked it before going to work one day and left it on the counter and on arriving home it was swollen enough, left it for another day and pitched the following afternoon. She worked apples and the beer has turned out rather pleasant.

Thanks all for the advice. Learnt something again .. isn't this AHB concept brilliant. All questions asked have been well answered and noted.

MrMalty.com duly scutinized and will use.

:icon_cheers:

 

[kook]

Another thing to remember is the fact that the smack pack idea is just to prove viability if your yeast. If you smack the internal pack, and have some swelling, then just go ahead and pitch it into your starter. The internal pack is not meant to be used to propogate further yeast, just to prove that the yeast contained is viable, and to wake it up again.

If I've got a fresh smackpack I don't actually wait for it to swell, I just smack it and pitch it straight into a starter. I can't be bothered waiting to see if it's viable, if it isn't then I'll see in the starter!

 

[braufrau]

The last one I smacked I put on my seedling propogator at 20C before work.
When I came home it was blown up like a balloon.

Then I accidentally cooked the yeast and melted the cord to my stirplate, but that's another story.

Also, I find Mr Malty a bit pessimistic when it comes to volumes of starters and
number of smack packs.
Whenever I've played with his calculator he's wanted 4 smack packs in a 5l starter
or something preposterous like that!
Well I can't test this vague assertion because I don't have flash installed on my PC here.

But having said that ... I'm all on tenterhooks to get his book! Should be here any day now!

 

[drsmurto]

Fresh is best - Sam gets the smack packs for me and they are a few weeks old. The cider yeast (4766) was ready to explode in less than 45 mins on sunday arvo! Wont be smacking the 1084 until i am ready to pitch! Love your work Sam!

 

[Screwtop]

The last one I smacked I put on my seedling propogator at 20C before work.
When I came home it was blown up like a balloon.

Then I accidentally cooked the yeast and melted the cord to my stirplate, but that's another story.

Also, I find Mr Malty a bit pessimistic when it comes to volumes of starters and
number of smack packs.
Whenever I've played with his calculator he's wanted 4 smack packs in a 5l starter
or something preposterous like that!
Well I can't test this vague assertion because I don't have flash installed on my PC here.

But having said that ... I'm all on tenterhooks to get his book! Should be here any day now!

BF, if you tick "Calculate viability from date" CHECK THE MFG DATE. If you haven't set the date and there is an old date in the Production Date field, the calculator will be showing all sorts of crazy amounts trying to compensate for old yeast. BUT, it is quite an interesting exercise to enter the volume of your wort and the mfg date of your yeast, then age the yeast a few months to see just how much of a starter is required, even with yeast well within the 6 months best by period.
Screwy

 

[Fatgodzilla]

BF, if you tick "Calculate viability from date" CHECK THE MFG DATE. If you haven't set the date and there is an old date in the Production Date field, the calculator will be showing all sorts of crazy amounts trying to compensate for old yeast. BUT, it is quite an interesting exercise to enter the volume of your wort and the mfg date of your yeast, then age the yeast a few months to see just how much of a starter is required, even with yeast well within the 6 months best by period.
Screwy

Something new here. What's the best starting method. Cos I'm using DME, say start 250g in one litre, then step up over a few days to a final 500g DME starter ? Assuming I don't buy fresh but older yeasts (just assuming) do you think these levels sound okay ? Any need for yeast nutrients ?

 

[kook]

Something new here. What's the best starting method. Cos I'm using DME, say start 250g in one litre, then step up over a few days to a final 500g DME starter ? Assuming I don't buy fresh but older yeasts (just assuming) do you think these levels sound okay ? Any need for yeast nutrients ?

The wort you're producing there is far too strong. Aim for 1.040, which is roughly 100g DME per litre. You're trying to increase yeast population, not reduce viability / health through working them hard in a concentrated wort.

You want to step up in volume, not in concentration of sugars. Ie, 1L (with 100g) to 5L (with 500g).

 

[braufrau]

Something new here. What's the best starting method. Cos I'm using DME, say start 250g in one litre, then step up over a few days to a final 500g DME starter ? Assuming I don't buy fresh but older yeasts (just assuming) do you think these levels sound okay ? Any need for yeast nutrients ?

The received wisdom is to use 1:10 DME:water by weight which gives about 1.040 SG
So I start with 50g of DME to 500ml or water for a couple of days
and the add 100g of DME and 1l of water for another couple of days.

I've never used yeast nutrients but some people advise microwaving in water the rotten stuff
from kits and adding that. I might do that next week when I start up my westmalle stuff stored in the fridge.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

The received wisdom is to use 1:10 DME:water by weight which gives about 1.040 SG
So I start with 50g of DME to 500ml or water for a couple of days
and the add 100g of DME and 1l of water for another couple of days.

I've never used yeast nutrients but some people advise microwaving in water the rotten stuff
from kits and adding that. I might do that next week when I start up my westmalle stuff stored in the fridge.

So aim to finish with 150g DME to 1.5litres water after say 5 days, allowing for temperature. Would it matter if the final starter temperature ends up higher than the actual wort temp to which I'm pitching ? say a 23degree starter going to a 17degree wort ?

 

[Screwtop]

After swelling add to a 2L 1.040 starter (boiled 10 min then cooled to 24). Once it's finished and the yeast has dropped out, gently pour about 80% of the beer off, swirl and pitch into your wort.

 

[drsmurto]

Why cant i just pitch the yeast once its swelled? According to wyeast, one activator package does 5 gallons of standard wort (SG 1.034 - 1.060) which is ~19L. I do 20L batches so i figure as long as i aerate the wort sufficiently alls good....... :huh:

 

[Screwtop]

Why cant i just pitch the yeast once its swelled? According to wyeast, one activator package does 5 gallons of standard wort (SG 1.034 - 1.060) which is ~19L. I do 20L batches so i figure as long as i aerate the wort sufficiently alls good....... :huh:

Mostly I make 23L batches, the smack pack does not contain enough yeast for this volume even when fresh, so a starter is required.

 

[Sammus]

You can, and its usually fine too. But some people (such as myself) can get a bit anal about yeast cell counts etc, and so make up enourmous starters and go to great lengths to ensure they have the recommended cell count - something I do for some reason, despite having not noticed much of a (read any) difference in the end product

 

[braufrau]

After swelling add to a 2L 1.040 starter (boiled 10 min then cooled to 24). Once it's finished and the yeast has dropped out, gently pour about 80% of the beer off, swirl and pitch into your wort.

You pitch the slurry or the beer?? I just pitch the lot. Should I not?

 

[kook]

You pitch the slurry or the beer?? I just pitch the lot. Should I not?

Depends on the size of the starter and personal preference.

If you're pitching a 5L starter into a 20L lager, you're going to dilute the beer quite significantly. Also, most starters are fermented warm, and the flavours that can be thrown off might not be desirable in your beer.

I normally chill a starter for 48 hours then carefully decant 3/4 of the liquid, leaving only the slurry and about 1/4 of the liquid behind.