Robobrew - any point in whirlpooling

[donald_trub]

I did my first Robobrew on the weekend, after moving on from an esky mash tun + urn. All in all it was a good experience, although I forgot to whirlpool.

It got me thinking - is there much point in whirlpooling in a Robobrew? Where will the trub cone sit? On top of the false bottom? The pump is then on the very bottom, with the pump inlet close to the middle (would make more sense been on the outer edge I would've thought).

So when the pump starts sucking, the hops sitting on top of the false bottom would either filter the trub or let it through. I don't see a difference in the pump sucking things in with or without the whirlpool step.

Am I missing something in this scenario?

 

[fdsaasdf]

Whirlpooling works fine on the Robobrew 65L. Trub cone forms nicely on the false bottom.

Not sure why your pump inlet would be near the middle, mine isn't, but if you wanted to move it you could always add a 1/2" elbow (assuming the inlet is similar to the 65L).

 

[donald_trub]

So with the pump sucking from below the false bottom, what's the point of whirlpooling to a cone? It sounds to me like the false bottom plus bed of hops is doing all the filtering.

 

[MHB]

You can whirlpool with a spoon, turn the pump off establish the whirlpool and leave it to settle.
Hops aren't the part of the Trub that we want to separate out its mostly the condensed protein from the wort and you can be pretty sure that the hops you used were pellets they wont "filter" out the protein.
I know the old English breweries used Hop Backs to filter wort, but there were at least several hundred mm deep (up to a meter) and full of whole hops. Pelletised hops simply wont do what deep beds of whole hops will.
Attached is a bit of light reading on why we boil a wort, mind you there are a few features of the Grain Father that make me think it was designed more by an engineer than a brewer.
Mark

 

[donald_trub]

Thanks MHB. I've got about 100 batches of beer under my belt in my old Esky mash tun and Crown urn. I know how to whirlpool and why, and I had good success with it in my old Crown urn. I'm trying to determine if there's any point doing it in a Robobrew? If the hops aren't filtering the trub and the pump inlet is near the centre of the bottom of the Robobrew, then why should I bother whirlpoing? It seems a bit pointless in this case.

Edit: I'll be whirlpooling on future batches, I just forgot on the maiden voyage! I still feel like that pump will just suck up any trub cone sitting on the bottom...

 

[Outback]

I've found I have more issues with trub/hops going between bottom screen and sidewall of robo. Whirlpooling to create a cone helps this to a degree.

 

[donald_trub]

Thanks, that's a good use case and I wondered about that. The bottom screen could be a couple of millimetres bigger to block that gap a little better. I had no issues with hops getting into my fermenter without whirlpooling, but 90% of my hops were in a BIAB bag, with just a small amount of aroma hops thrown directly in.

 

[Drewgong]

G'day fellas have you guys measures your efficiency on the robobrew. A mate brought his over on the weekend we brewed a balter xpa. 4kg golden promise 500g carapils 150g wheat to put 21 litres in the fermenter og was 1040 I used a online calculator to find we only got 59% efficiency

 

[dblunn]

Hi, I get better than that. I usually get around 82% mash efficiency and about 76% Brewhouse efficiency.

 

[Bonenose]

I generally got around the mid to low seventies

 

[wide eyed and legless]

G'day fellas have you guys measures your efficiency on the robobrew. A mate brought his over on the weekend we brewed a balter xpa. 4kg golden promise 500g carapils 150g wheat to put 21 litres in the fermenter og was 1040 I used a online calculator to find we only got 59% efficiency

Definitely something gone awry there, I would suggest in the calculations. I would be expecting a 70% minimum in any of the SVB's

 

[Drewgong]

Definitely something gone awry there, I would suggest in the calculations. I would be expecting a 70% minimum in any of the SVB's

I suspect the tempreture reading on the robobrew. will check it next time

 

[Bonenose]

Robobrew I was using was a couple degrees out, read two or three degrees high I think from memory, easy to adjust for however.
Have also got some fairly poor results from some old grain I dug up and used one time.

 

[goatchop41]

I suspect the tempreture reading on the robobrew. will check it next time

Even if the temperature reading was out by a few degrees, that should not affect your efficiency so significantly (as I'm going to assume that a recipe for Balter XPA would have a mash temp somewhere around 64-66oC).
You need to be looking at crush size, mash pH, mash length, and sparging technique.

 

[fdsaasdf]

Even if the temperature reading was out by a few degrees, that should not affect your efficiency so significantly (as I'm going to assume that a recipe for Balter XPA would have a mash temp somewhere around 64-66oC).
You need to be looking at crush size, mash pH, mash length, and sparging technique.

But how could those factors be Kegland's fault?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

But how could those factors be Kegland's fault?

I can't see where he said it was Keg Lands fault, just offering some advice on where the problem could be.

 

[goatchop41]

I can't see where he said it was Keg Lands fault, just offering some advice on where the problem could be.

I think that you've missed a bit of the sarcasm in fdsaasdf's reply...probably not directed at drewgong either...

 

[Drewgong]

Cheers for the feedback and suggestions fellas ....firstly I'm a big fan of kegland so definitely wasn't having a dig at them . mash temp was set at 64 and sparge was 70 . The grain was bought pre cracked off the shelf at country brewer

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Cheers for the feedback and suggestions fellas ....firstly I'm a big fan of kegland so definitely wasn't having a dig at them . mash temp was set at 64 and sparge was 70 . The grain was bought pre cracked off the shelf at country brewer

You can set your temperature at 64 but doesn't mean that is what you are getting, you have to adjust the temperature on the screen to the probe. They can be as much as 5 degrees out.

 

[carrobrew]

Whirlpooling works fine on the Robobrew 65L. Trub cone forms nicely on the false bottom.

Not sure why your pump inlet would be near the middle, mine isn't, but if you wanted to move it you could always add a 1/2" elbow (assuming the inlet is similar to the 65L).

Reviving this old thread to say that my Pump inlet on my 35L unit is also close to the center of the unit. Seems like a design flaw to me as whirlpooling would put most of the gunk directly on top of the inlet and also the temp probe. I have seen pics on other units where it is off to the side. How many of you have it in the center like mine? What is this elbow piece you mentioned?

I am in no way complaining, I've only done the one brew and it was very successfully and couldn't be happier with my purchase. Hit all my numbers and brew day was relaxing and easy. I ended up filling the fermenter out of the tap on the side as I use the supplied immersion chiller ATM but using a plate or counterflow may pose an issue using the pump I guess?

Anyone have issues with using the pump to chill who also have their inlet in the middle? See pics attached.