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Ok, now I'm thinking of getting into this caramelising thing myself.

Ive had a scottish on the cards for arond the past 6 months, keeps on getting peddled back due to my hop addiction and brewing around competitions. :angry: Might be an idea to crank one out after my holidays, by then its too late to brew it for vicbrew and there will be around 4-5 months of no comps (minus oktoberfest)! sounds like a plan!
 
Not wanting to start any sort of pissing contest here but I do have a question as I've been looking at a *ahem* rather obscure Landlord recipe lately.

In DrSmurto's recipe he says he's added the choc to bypass the caramelising process but you've used both. I'm not trying to pit one idea against the other - just trying to get my head around both ideas. Since I've not yet used choc malts nor have I caramelised wort before can someone shed some light for me?
 
I'm not trying to pit one idea against the other - just trying to get my head around both ideas. Since I've not yet used choc malts nor have I caramelised wort before can someone shed some light for me?
I'm guessing that choc malt is in there to darken the wort, and add a bit of extra malt complexity.
Caramelising the wort also darkens it, and add to the malt profile as well.
Having said that, they would be different beasts, and i'm also tempted to fiddle around with such a process...
 
Not wanting to start any sort of pissing contest here but I do have a question as I've been looking at a *ahem* rather obscure Landlord recipe lately.

In DrSmurto's recipe he says he's added the choc to bypass the caramelising process but you've used both.

Choc would be used to adjust colour as you will not get the same flavours from choc malt compared with kettle carmelisation. In a nutshell, you are making malt toffee when you caramelise. I think you would be better to use caraaroma or another really dark crystal for the dark caramel flavours and a pinch of roast barley (like 5g) for colour adjustment. Kettle caramelisation can be mistaken for diacetyl as it has a creamy/buttery feel to the palate which is usually accentuated by low carbonation.

Either way, I'd go for some caraaroma and some roast malt/barley if you want to emulate the flavours of kettle caramelisation rather than adjusting it visually.
 
Yup, I have been caramelising to get complexity and 'lusciousness' love that word .... not just colour. When Ross and Chappo set up my new kegerator yesterday, first keg in was the SuperLandlord and, without knowing the exact recipe Ross took a swig and said "there's some nice caramel going on in there". The choc of course offers more than just colour but as the Doc suggests the wort caramelisation could well stand alone as is.
 
Excellent. Thanks, guys.
 
I tried my hand at caramelizing some wort (I second the bigger pot suggestions BTW) but it didn't end up anywhere near dark enough or introduce the caramel flavour after adding it back into the boil, even though it seemed way dark in the smaller pot and at about the right volume. My 'take home message' was that too much caramelising is barely enough when using that method. I guess repeatability is one thing we might get with the choc/roast in the recipes, every single caramelising process is bound to be different.

Sadly I lost a TTL pilot batch with 1469 and caramelised wort like Bribie's recipe to an infection, although I've now narrowed down its most likely source to the dreaded tap fiasco, which, thanks to recent posts, are now being pulled apart between batches plus being replaced more frequently. Can't boil them, or at least the ones I have boiled have thence begun to drip and are only good for bottling. :angry:

Am surprised no one has suggested an alternate yeast to Ringwood for this recipe? Or is a particular West Yorkshire strain just such given these days? Maybe there will be one or two in the works once lager season is over. ;)

As a general observation, we'd all do well to take note- BribieG is a fantastic craftsman and the awards of late only reinforce what I've suspected for some time.

Oh, and the camping stoves are fantastic in the kitchen when you've got something flammable busy on the stove. i.e. stockpot and a jersey/doona. Very handy bit of kit and can pump out enough BTUs to be useful for many things, I often have starters sterilising on one while the mash is on as my organisational skills are pretty ordinary, but NC saves the day in ironing out timing issues.

Edit: Oh damn, I forgot to mention- what a fantastic recipe, pal! Bookmarked!
 
Yup, I have been caramelising to get complexity and 'lusciousness' love that word .... not just colour. When Ross and Chappo set up my new kegerator yesterday, first keg in was the SuperLandlord and, without knowing the exact recipe Ross took a swig and said "there's some nice caramel going on in there". The choc of course offers more than just colour but as the Doc suggests the wort caramelisation could well stand alone as is.

Bribie - You've convinced me to give this a go in my next TTL. I was not quite convinced but using a word like luciousness has tipped me over the edge! :beer:

I love the name btw, SuperLandlord. (imagine it being said by a boxing ring announcer..... :lol: )

I make an english IIPA that i call Imperial Landlord but thats another story...... (and one that involves george lucas....)
 
Dr Smurto putting sugar in his beer :eek: I don't believe it :p
 
Did the boiling down process myself again last Saturday with 7L of 1st runnings. After having minimal success with this process in a 100% GP beer which still helped, but still came out as pale as a standard lagerI tried this grain bill -

4kg GP
1kg Wey Vienna
300g Simpsons Imperial
40g Carafa I

Just as a technical point of interest and for whatever its worth? though we all know what we we mean by "caramelization"in this process, from what I have read it strictly speaking isn't! as the temps invoved to do this begin at 170C, its "Maillards reaction," which is the heating (or boiling in this case) of sugar compounds in the presence of an acid which creates flavours similar to melanoidins.

Cheers,
BB
 
wouldn't however once the runnings start to go 'syrupy' a temp of around 170+ be acheived? It would have a pretty high percentage of sugar after being reduced from 2L to 300ml.
 
wouldn't however once the runnings start to go 'syrupy' a temp of around 170+ be acheived? It would have a pretty high percentage of sugar after being reduced from 2L to 300ml.

A fair question, maybe someone doing it next should take a temp reading.

Cheers,
BB
 
Alright BribieG so not to be out down I'm gunna give this a crack on Sunday. I am going to also have a crack at this caramelising thing.

I'll let ya know how I go.

Cheers

Chappo
 
quick question on boiling down some first runnings.

lets just say I boil down 3 litres down to 1 litre (so I have lost 2 litres).

How should that affect my batch size?

Is my batch size going to be the original 20 litres? (20 is what I like to do) or will it be 18 litres because I boiled off 2 litres from the first runnings?

Cheers
Phil
 
If your going to boil down first runnings you will lose the 2 lt in volume, so 18 lt final vol. you can add back the 2 lt you lost by topping up into the boiler with water.

Andrew
 
The sugar will boil and be denser. If the temp of the reduction gets much above 175 degrees it will be too dark and bitter.
 
Although BIAB is supposed to be a 'full volume of liquor at the start of the process' method, in reality I put more water - sorry liquor - either through

  • sparging in a bucket or
  • drawing some wort out of the urn tap into a stockpot and doing a 'mashout' at end of mash.

Either way the 300ml of concentrate that I put back in to the boil isn't a big amount and the wort is usually back up to normal level as a result of the two steps above.
 
hi all,

havent really been all that into the ESB's etc. but have tried a few of late and keen to nail a good one, the dr's landlord seems like a good start,

just wondering about the yeast, the 1469 is a seasonal (as i understand) and not availible at the moment so what is a reasonable alternative, i have read all the spec on the wyeast site and 1275 seems to be closest in the description

im also hoping to throw an irish on the yeast cake once this one is done, any advice will be much appreciated.

cheers
 
I did one with ringwood (1187) and it turned out nice, not as nice as the 1469, but for any ol ESB you could even try a 1968, I haven't got hold of any 1275 yet, but I am sure the author can comment on the use of different yeasts in this recipe...

however, you have given me a good idea, split a 30L batch with each yeast, and run a parallel fermentation to compare! wahoo
 

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