New Hlt Going Gas Over Electric..

[vicelore]

Hey guys..

Im about to finish off my new AG setup with a purchase of a 100L Hlt from beer belly..

I have spoken to a few regarding setting this up and have been told that electric would require a 10A connection in my shed ( that isnt mine ) so i think im going to go gas with the HLT and just run it off another Nasa with a med presure reg.

Was wondering if any of you guys had any pros or cons with this setup..

Iv got a 70L kettle and 50L mashtun so i was thinking 100L Hlt would let me do a full double batch without refilling the Hlt.

I am aware that going gas over electric would require manual operation and may be a little more prone to heat loss as i cannot insulate the pot. Is there any other things i might be overlooking ??

Cheers Guys. Look forward to your input.

Vice.

 

[Supra-Jim]

Hi Vicelore,

Do you have any power supply in your shed?? If it's 240V, then i'd be suprised if you don't have 10A available. AFAIK 10A is standard for 240V. That being said, 2400W 10A element is going to take a vety long time to acheive temp in a 100 ltr HLT.

You could run gas to do the grunt work in raising the temp, then switch to an electric element for fine control/maintaining temp?

Cheers SJ

 

[brettprevans]

if you go electric it is completely dependant on how quickly you want to heat the water. the quicker you want to heat it, the bigger connec tion and element you'll need.

e.g. ive got a 3600W element. i can heat 50L of water from ~15C to 80C in ~45min. but i require a 15Amp power point which i got put in.
now given you've got a massive hlt you can probably sacrifice some heating speed because you wont need to refill the hlt. you can also insulate the pot which prevents heat loss and helps heating speed. with electric you could wire up to a temp controller and 'set and forget'

if you go gas. heat faster. (possibly), but you go thru a lot more gas bottles (unless you have it connected up to mains gas). you cans till insultae the pot just not as much. you cant 'set and forget'.

i personally would go electric.

 

[rude]

You could run an extension lead for power from you're 10A outlet in you're house.

 

[vicelore]

Maybey i needed a 15 Amp socket ??? It was a little while ago when i researched this ??

Cheers Vice

 

[Supra-Jim]

That makes more sense. If you want something over 2400W you'll be looking at a 15A outlet being installed.

Are you able to install a couple of 10A elements? Again, run two/three elements to get upto temp, then just a single element for finer control.

Insulating the HLT is a great suggestion too!

Cheers SJ

 

[brettprevans]

i'd say it was probably a 15amp, as 10amp is standard. although even if running 10amp, you'd want it on a seperate circuit so you dont trip it.

also keep in mind that if its a 15amp socket you'll need a 15amp extention cord and connections. but a sparky should be able to do all that for you.

it reminds me that i should take pics of how mine is wored up and post it.

That makes more sense. If you want something over 2400W you'll be looking at a 15A outlet being installed.

Are you able to install a couple of 10A elements? Again, run two/three elements to get upto temp, then just a single element for finer control.

keep in mind that each 10amp element will have to be on a seperate fuse/circuit otherwise it will trip (ie 2x10amp on one circuit = 20amp).
if you do this, its still no problem to hook up a temp controller to all of them. its just a little more wiring.

 

[komodo]

Vicelore would be supprised if you dont have 10amp socket in your shed. As mentioned all GPOs should be 10amp unless they are a 15/16amp "caravan" socket which you should be able to pick by noting an enlarged hole for the earth pin.
I would actually suggest that being that your in somerville (all detached houses / semi rural most people would put a 15 amp circuit in for compressors / machinery) you might actually have a 15 amp circuit in the shed. Do you know if you shed is on an isolated circuit from the house? If so check the size of the circuit breaker.
All else failing what about contacting your landlord. If your likely to be staying at the premisis for a while you might be able to do a deal with the land lord to put in a 15 amp circuit - its not that expencive.

 

[vicelore]

It seemed like going electric is going to be allot more expensive..

I think ill need the following to go electric.

4 sockets for elements/ thermo and outlet, welded into the pot.
2 elements
Have them wired up be a sparky
Temp mate
15 Amp socket welded into my shed
and insulation on the HLT.

rather than a output socket and one for the thermo, A Nasa and reg.. ( could use my existing one to save money further)

Do you guys really think its worth heading down the electric route ? I did inatially want electric but it seems like a PITA

Another thing that would be nice about electric is i wouldnt need to worry about melting my MT whilst heating up the HLT.. i plan of having them fairly close together.

Cheers Vice

 

[komodo]

cement sheeting should provide enough of a heat sheild not to worry about melting the mash tun I would think.

Personally I'm in the same boat as you. I like the idea of electric and I think that it make for a "cleaner" brewery with more accurate control using PID/temp controllers and the likes. But gas is cheap, electricity is going up. A 15 amp socket will power a 3600watt element. But what about power for your march pump, controllers, herms element etc?

 

[Fents]

It seemed like going electric is going to be allot more expensive..

I think ill need the following to go electric.

4 sockets for elements/ thermo and outlet, welded into the pot.
2 elements
Have them wired up be a sparky
Temp mate
15 Amp socket welded into my shed
and insulation on the HLT.

rather than a output socket and one for the thermo, A Nasa and reg.. ( could use my existing one to save money further)

Do you guys really think its worth heading down the electric route ? I did inatially want electric but it seems like a PITA

Another thing that would be nice about electric is i wouldnt need to worry about melting my MT whilst heating up the HLT.. i plan of having them fairly close together.

Cheers Vice

or for about half that price you could buy 2 x 40 Litre birko urn's @ $270 each = $540 and they run off 10amp sockets so no fluffing about with sparky's, welders, sight glass etc.

 

[vicelore]

so a 15A socket can only power 1 3600 Watt element ? i was thinking i could have 2 3600w elements in the tun ??

Id also have a freezer and 2 fementing fridges, march pump ,radio, laptop running on the same socket, would this be a problem ??

Cheers Vice

 

[brettprevans]

It seemed like going electric is going to be allot more expensive..

I think ill need the following to go electric.

4 sockets for elements/ thermo and outlet, welded into the pot.
2 elements
Have them wired up be a sparky
Temp mate
15 Amp socket welded into my shed
and insulation on the HLT.

rather than a output socket and one for the thermo, A Nasa and reg.. ( could use my existing one to save money further)

Do you guys really think its worth heading down the electric route ? I did inatially want electric but it seems like a PITA

Another thing that would be nice about electric is i wouldnt need to worry about melting my MT whilst heating up the HLT.. i plan of having them fairly close together.

Cheers Vice

have a look at my hlt here. element and housing bought from stokes electrical.
2 sockets. 1 big socket for the element and housing which just screws in. and 1 socket for the outlet. the temp probe from the tempmate goes into the element housing as it has a thermo well inbuilt.
- wiring isnt difficult. i ended up reqiring the sparky's job cause he buggered it up.
- the 15 amp circuit. well there's no real way of getting around that. it needs a new line from the main switch. but easy for a sparky to do.
- insultation could be cheap camping mats or wool insulation from an old hot water service or hihgh temp rubber or something.

I just use the single 15amp point to run my element and march pump. it just means switching plugs over each time i want to use one of the other. at some stage i'll get it fixed/hard wired up so i can just flick a switch.

if you dont already have a burner, then it might be worth using that as an interim measure, whislt you save some $ then go electric

 

[NickB]

I have a 32A circuit in my garage currently, and one is being installed at the place we're moving to next week. I run a 2200W element for the HLT, and an 1800W element for the HERMS, plus a March Pump, stereo, computer, keg freezer and two fermenting fridges. Makes life so much easier!

If you're getting wiring done anyhow, may as well get the 32A circuit put in for not much more $$$

Cheers

 

[komodo]

not a chance in hell.

240V x 1 amp = 240watts.

Standard GPO = 10 amps so 240V x 10 amps = 2400 watts MAXIMUM load.
15 amp GPO = 15 amps (duh!) so 240V * 15 amps = 3600 watts MAXIMUM load.

2 x 3600watt elements = 7200watts / 240V = 30amp cicuit required!
And thats not allowing for your fridge, freezer, march pump, radio, laptop, garage door opener, auxillary shed lighting etc

 

[brettprevans]

so a 15A socket can only power 1 3600 Watt element ? i was thinking i could have 2 3600w elements in the tun ??

Id also have a freezer and 2 fementing fridges, march pump ,radio, laptop running on the same socket, would this be a problem ??

Cheers Vice

a 3600w element will pull about 12amp. you want to run thew rest of your stuff off another circuit. a normal 10amp circuit would be fine.
2 x 3600w elements will need a 30amp circuit or 2x15amp circuits. that gets tricky as it depends on whether the mains cable is thick enough. your getting up around 3 phase power. but you cant really do that if your renting.

edit.
or you get a sparky to wire up a sub-mains box in the shed and then your set. but again your renting so thats a no go.

 

[vicelore]

Sorry guys.. im new to all this power stuff and havent really looked into it..

I dont rent im living home with my parents but should be moving out in the next year some time.. I might have to talk to a sparky or something and see what my options are...

Do you guys know what kinda elements would be required for a 100L Hlt ?? would 1 3600w be enough ??

Cheers Vice

 

[clean brewer]

Iv got a 70L kettle and 50L mashtun so i was thinking 100L Hlt would let me do a full double batch without refilling the Hlt

Vicelore, I doubt aswell that you need a 100ltr HLT for doubles, I have never needed more that 70lts of Water for Double Batches..

Maybe save some dough and get something a little smaller for your HLT(60-70ltr pot) unless you want to use your 70ltr pot for your HLT, 100ltr pot for your kettle and a bigger esky and do triples?? :unsure:

Even with my doubles, my Mash water is about 23litres and sparge water is 45ltrs so if you heated them both seperately, you dont need anything bigger than a 50ltr HLT but 60-70ltre would be a good all round size....

My $0.02

:icon_cheers: CB

 

[raven19]

Do you guys know what kinda elements would be required for a 100L Hlt ?? would 1 3600w be enough ??

As per earlier posts it about the time it will take to heat it.

For a 100 L HLT, I wouldve though 3600W would be ok, but it will take some time.

My 100 L kettle when around the 80L mark has 2 x 2400W elements and it is lifting wort from 60 ish deg to 100 deg and it takes what seems like ages... but probably 30 - 50 mins.

In your case you are taking tap water at 15 - 25 deg up to 70 - 90 deg... a bigger increase with a smaller element.

If you set it on a timer the night before you would probably be ok.

 

[skippy]

not a chance in hell.

240V x 1 amp = 240watts.

Standard GPO = 10 amps so 240V x 10 amps = 2400 watts MAXIMUM load.
15 amp GPO = 15 amps (duh!) so 240V * 15 amps = 3600 watts MAXIMUM load.

2 x 3600watt elements = 7200watts / 240V = 30amp cicuit required!
And thats not allowing for your fridge, freezer, march pump, radio, laptop, garage door opener, auxillary shed lighting etc

Agreed, but i'm just waiting to hear what lethalcorpse says, he's the expert!